<![CDATA[I bought a car.]]>I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.

I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.

No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.

🤦🏻

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/topic/5326f674-22c5-4c71-8c5a-dee8a59fca2e/i-bought-a-car.RSS for NodeTue, 26 May 2026 22:45:36 GMTSun, 24 May 2026 03:38:15 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:59:11 GMT]]>@paco @zotnobot @isocat > Also, I have to connect CarPlay by wire, not wireless. If I connect by wireless, the car will use the phone to transmit its telemetry!

I’m pretty sure that’s not accurate. The iPod Accessory Protocol sends an audio stream and optionally one or more streams of text data (track name, artist name, etc.), and accepts a control event stream from the accessory.

Wired CarPlay is an extension of iAP which adds one or more video streams and a wider variety of text streams (e.g, next turn information) from the phone and an audio stream from the accessory (i.e, the car), but it doesn’t allow transfer of arbitrary data over the cable.

Wireless CarPlay adds a wireless handshake, but it’s exactly the same protocol as wired CarPlay otherwise. That’s why you can get cheap adapters to add it to cars which didn’t ship with it.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/bob_zim/statuses/116629671234621774https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/bob_zim/statuses/116629671234621774Sun, 24 May 2026 12:59:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:59:03 GMT]]>@argv_minus_one @paco Isn’t this the reason why you have to confirm you read the terms, before you can start using the app?

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://social.vivaldi.net/ap/users/116302207428995368/statuses/116629670660610032https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://social.vivaldi.net/ap/users/116302207428995368/statuses/116629670660610032Sun, 24 May 2026 12:59:03 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:51:28 GMT]]>@paco literally just went through this with Honda. I had to send a letter to Honda legal "I reserve all rights and opt out of arbitration".

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/xabean/statuses/116629640869058385https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/xabean/statuses/116629640869058385Sun, 24 May 2026 12:51:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:47:37 GMT]]>@argv_minus_one @paco I don't understand how courts can continue to enforce contracts/T&C that aren't read and it's _known_ they aren't read.

And arbitration clauses feel like blatant abuse of the legal system via money.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/NegativeK/statuses/116629625733333835https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/NegativeK/statuses/116629625733333835Sun, 24 May 2026 12:47:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:42:56 GMT]]>@awfulwoman @duckwhistle It's highly likely that the first-line support people don't even work for Toyota. They work for a support outsourcing company that has a contract with Toyota.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://social.lol/users/chrisod/statuses/116629607314922125https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://social.lol/users/chrisod/statuses/116629607314922125Sun, 24 May 2026 12:42:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:40:39 GMT]]>@paco worst case scenario, criminals can access your location data in real time and ...

that's assuming the company can't secure the data 100% of the time, or it is possible to intercept it.

Maybe try to find the physical component on the car and smash it?

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/dckim/statuses/116629598337629700https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/dckim/statuses/116629598337629700Sun, 24 May 2026 12:40:39 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:32:10 GMT]]>@paco So happy my car dates from 2014 & doesn't have these things. Does have a CD player tho😂

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://ioc.exchange/users/annehargreaves/statuses/116629564993909791https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://ioc.exchange/users/annehargreaves/statuses/116629564993909791Sun, 24 May 2026 12:32:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:28:49 GMT]]>@duckwhistle @awfulwoman @paco However if a representative of the company states that creating said account does not bind you to those clauses (and you can prove it), things might become interesting, from a legal perspective. IANAL.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://furry.engineer/users/ysegrim/statuses/116629551799535921https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://furry.engineer/users/ysegrim/statuses/116629551799535921Sun, 24 May 2026 12:28:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:27:54 GMT]]>@awfulwoman It’s easier said than done. My car is like the RAV4, but it’s a BZ4X. Look at what it takes to “cut the cable” on a RAV4. I will do this eventually, but I need instructions this detailed.

https://arkadiyt.com/2026/05/13/removing-the-modem-and-gps-from-my-rav4/

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629548219491613https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629548219491613Sun, 24 May 2026 12:27:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:27:14 GMT]]>@ausfestivus

Seems line an opportunity for some enterprising mechanic. I know I'd pay instead of attempting this myself.

@paco @daedalus

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://left-bank.net/ap/users/115996564141250603/statuses/116629545576337967https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://left-bank.net/ap/users/115996564141250603/statuses/116629545576337967Sun, 24 May 2026 12:27:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:26:14 GMT]]>@paco @zotnobot @isocat 🤦‍♂️

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://ioc.exchange/users/annehargreaves/statuses/116629541621729442https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://ioc.exchange/users/annehargreaves/statuses/116629541621729442Sun, 24 May 2026 12:26:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:24:58 GMT]]>@elebertus I’m over on a Toyota forum asking about it. The ONLY replies I get are like “you can’t stop all the ALPR and apps on your phone, so why bother with the car?” And similar “who cares?” sorts of replies. It’s depressing. People actively resisting my effort to stop the data collection.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629536700135956https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629536700135956Sun, 24 May 2026 12:24:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:24:28 GMT]]>@paco It's almost like they themselves have not read, understood, and agreed to the terms.

I'm about to have the same issue with Volvo once I move to a state with privacy laws. They want me to pay $200/yr for their phone app, and I don't want it to be a phone app.

Why does everything have to be a fucking phone app?

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://defcon.social/users/manchicken/statuses/116629534706499792https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://defcon.social/users/manchicken/statuses/116629534706499792Sun, 24 May 2026 12:24:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:21:59 GMT]]>@ausfestivus Thanks. Yeah that’s how I know I can replace the DCM with a wiring harness. But there aren’t instructions (that I have seen) for doing this on a BZ4X.

@daedalus

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629524920569280https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629524920569280Sun, 24 May 2026 12:21:59 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:20:46 GMT]]>I’m looking into it. I know a couple things for sure. Data collection is opt-out, the modem is buried deep inside the dashboard (so a huge PITA to get) and the phone microphone runs through the DCM (data communications module). For $70 I can get a bypass harness that you put in place of the DCM. It’s just wires with the right connectors and it keeps a few things connected (like the microphone) that would be disconnected by simply removing the DCM.

What I am uncertain about is how to get to the DCM. For a lot of cars (RAV4, Camry) there are published instructions. I’m not afraid, but I won’t do it without instructions.

Also, the symbol on the screen that indicates DCM is not working is already indicating that. When I spoke to the folks in customer service, they did some stuff on their end. So I’m not sure if it’s transmitting or not. I do know that it can. It probably is. But the icon suggests it is not.

Finally there are lots of extra stupid things. If I disconnect the DCM, the cars GPS stops working. That’s fine. But then my iPhone, when connected to the car, will use the broken signals from the cars broken GPS, and then it won’t know where it is! Also, I have to connect CarPlay by wire, not wireless. If I connect by wireless, the car will use the phone to transmit its telemetry!

What a massive PITA!

@zotnobot @isocat

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629520140785683https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629520140785683Sun, 24 May 2026 12:20:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:11:14 GMT]]>@violenteastcoastcity @paco Lawyers complicate everything. My gut feel is that the "contract" or any terms and conditions are barely enforceable.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.world/users/RABid/statuses/116629482653711538https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.world/users/RABid/statuses/116629482653711538Sun, 24 May 2026 12:11:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:11:04 GMT]]>@paco @briankrebs https://youtu.be/T4Upf_B9RLQ?si=30QmcFZ9_T1pBjLq

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://nrw.social/users/vgoller/statuses/116629482003382694https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://nrw.social/users/vgoller/statuses/116629482003382694Sun, 24 May 2026 12:11:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 11:34:23 GMT]]>@awfulwoman
"people don't give a shit" is hardly an astute observation.
I'm saying that people not giving a shit about stuff like this is bad for them, bad for you, and bad for me. It's bad for the rule of law and thus civilization in general, so calling it out like this shows how fucked our society is 🤷
If you don't think that's relevant to you congratulations, you're part of the problem.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116629337788114300https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116629337788114300Sun, 24 May 2026 11:34:23 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 11:31:30 GMT]]>@pthane @paco Why don't you ask Kia, rather than strangers on the internet? Send them a DSAR. #11.1.1

https://www.kia.com/uk/privacy/

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/emilion/statuses/116629326459283276https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/emilion/statuses/116629326459283276Sun, 24 May 2026 11:31:30 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 11:10:42 GMT]]>@paco I have once met a guy that drove an old car from the 60s/70s.

He told he would never drive a car he couldn' t repair on his own and is stuffed with electronics.

Fair enough.

We all agree, that petrol engines are not sustainable, but maybe there is a little more, why they push us to buy newer and electr(on)ic cars.

SIM cards are there now for around a decade and they tell us just for positioning, in case your car breaks down, or got stolen.

Tell me lies tell me sweet little lies

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/desatyr/statuses/116629244639127121https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/desatyr/statuses/116629244639127121Sun, 24 May 2026 11:10:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 11:00:20 GMT]]>@duckwhistle I’m saying that this person is talking to a bunch of poorly paid first-line support people and that these support people don’t give a shit. Please read what I said.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://indieweb.social/users/awfulwoman/statuses/116629203849434348https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://indieweb.social/users/awfulwoman/statuses/116629203849434348Sun, 24 May 2026 11:00:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:47:46 GMT]]>@paco if it makes you feel any better, I'm in a now 5-month long email exchange with where I'm trying to get them to send me the English version of the updated policy the car wants me to agree to every time I turn it on.

Because the car is showing it to me in German.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/nikclayton/statuses/116629154448230162https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/nikclayton/statuses/116629154448230162Sun, 24 May 2026 10:47:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:47:45 GMT]]>@awfulwoman
But everybody who signs up for these services "should" know! The fact that most people don't seem to is an indictment of the schools system and education priorities, as well as evidence of corporations abusive relationship with their customer base.
If you maintain that its unrealistic to expect lay people to be aware that legally binding agreements are legally binding, that is an argument that all such contracts are unenforcible.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116629154424127394https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116629154424127394Sun, 24 May 2026 10:47:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:18:53 GMT]]>@Kerplunk

The search phrase that worked for me is "telematics delete"

@paco

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.online/users/Orb2069/statuses/116629040859978484https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.online/users/Orb2069/statuses/116629040859978484Sun, 24 May 2026 10:18:53 GMT