<![CDATA[Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize.]]>RE: https://glammr.us/@overholt/117049333496122205

Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize.

The conclusion we came to was that there was •no• storage medium that met their long-term preservation goals — true then, and almost certainly still true today. The best approach is perpetual and redundant forward copying of the data, from one physical storage device to another.

An archive isn’t a physical thing; it's a process.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/topic/537f751c-f0b0-4b8a-8ae4-90889630bf5b/back-in-1999-or-so-i-was-on-the-team-that-helped-minnesota-public-radio-choose-a-long-term-storage-format-for-their-extensive-and-valuable-audio-archives-which-they-were-about-to-digitize.RSS for NodeMon, 24 Aug 2026 18:51:57 GMTThu, 06 Aug 2026 20:04:40 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Sat, 08 Aug 2026 01:43:38 GMT]]>@inthehands "An archive isn’t a physical thing; it's a process" I need to tattoo this on my forehead or something

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://chaos.social/users/netzhexe/statuses/117057350405583160https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://chaos.social/users/netzhexe/statuses/117057350405583160Sat, 08 Aug 2026 01:43:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 14:20:33 GMT]]>@inthehands @ClimateJenny

3-2-1 Rule:
3 copies
2 different storage mediums
1 offsite (not the Cloud)

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://toad.social/users/syferdet/statuses/117054664416798430https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://toad.social/users/syferdet/statuses/117054664416798430Fri, 07 Aug 2026 14:20:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 14:19:04 GMT]]>@inthehands

For me: nine external HDDs that I’ve collected one a year for the past ten before prices went up. Rotate around which one is updated, using SD cards as the source for the copy, each card concentrating on a specific directory or directories.

It certainly is a process that has to be done on a schedule or it will never consistently be done.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://toad.social/users/syferdet/statuses/117054658607861394https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://toad.social/users/syferdet/statuses/117054658607861394Fri, 07 Aug 2026 14:19:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 12:34:43 GMT]]>@jernej__s @Eurospoofer @inthehands

This is already a problem with proprietary systems where the vendor goes out of business but the data has to be retained and usable for at least 7 years for legal reasons.

I worked at a bank in this situation and it was a giant pain because the system couldn’t run on any modern / approved operating system so it couldn’t be hosted in any location without massive security issues and mitigations.

So the first step is open data formats that can be maintained

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://masto.svavar.com/users/svavar/statuses/117054248303642042https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://masto.svavar.com/users/svavar/statuses/117054248303642042Fri, 07 Aug 2026 12:34:43 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 12:28:22 GMT]]>@inthehands

I managed the computers for my dad’s video store in the late twentieth and early 21st centuries (1995 - 2007).

The store’s rental software was based around a MS SQL server in RAID 1 and I replaced both drives annually just to be safe. Even then, I ended up having to do an emergency recovery because I moved to another country and let the replacement schedule slip.

So the only way to store data long-term is to re-establish the Knights Templar and task them with guarding it.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://masto.svavar.com/users/svavar/statuses/117054223292382927https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://masto.svavar.com/users/svavar/statuses/117054223292382927Fri, 07 Aug 2026 12:28:22 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 10:04:09 GMT]]>@megatronicthronbanks @inthehands We have yet to receive confirmation that anyone has successfully decoded that gold record.

Fair enough, though, you could engrave a decoding manual in human languages, although it would be more than a few pages (a few hundred more likely if you want to be thorough), and you'd want translations to cover at least the major language families of today.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://society.oftrolls.com/users/mansr/statuses/117053656214827232https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://society.oftrolls.com/users/mansr/statuses/117053656214827232Fri, 07 Aug 2026 10:04:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:52:47 GMT]]>@mansr @inthehands In a few human languages, on pages scattered throughout to protect them. With diagrams.

We did it with a gold record, and that was for aliens.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/megatronicthronbanks/statuses/117053611529313141https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/megatronicthronbanks/statuses/117053611529313141Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:52:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:47:59 GMT]]>@megatronicthronbanks @inthehands So where will you store the description then? You can't expect anyone to just look at a bar/2D code and infer the arithmetic required to decode it.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://society.oftrolls.com/users/mansr/statuses/117053592680190539https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://society.oftrolls.com/users/mansr/statuses/117053592680190539Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:47:59 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:37:57 GMT]]>@mansr @inthehands Why would you need to? You only need to describe the format.

It's not a DVD or DLT, that requires precise physics to decode.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/megatronicthronbanks/statuses/117053553213712467https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/megatronicthronbanks/statuses/117053553213712467Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:37:57 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:34:27 GMT]]>@megatronicthronbanks @inthehands How are you going to store the instructions for decoding them?

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://society.oftrolls.com/users/mansr/statuses/117053539434772298https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://society.oftrolls.com/users/mansr/statuses/117053539434772298Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:34:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:31:27 GMT]]>@mansr @inthehands What if it's just barcodes?

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/megatronicthronbanks/statuses/117053527641824816https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/megatronicthronbanks/statuses/117053527641824816Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:31:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 08:51:17 GMT]]>@ClimateJenny @inthehands On different tectonic plates.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://todon.eu/users/rhelune/statuses/117053369685219541https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://todon.eu/users/rhelune/statuses/117053369685219541Fri, 07 Aug 2026 08:51:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 08:43:06 GMT]]>@megatronicthronbanks @inthehands The trouble with extremely durable high-density media is that reading them still requires sophisticated machines. In 100 years time, you probably won't find one that works, nor instructions for building one.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://society.oftrolls.com/users/mansr/statuses/117053337549039861https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://society.oftrolls.com/users/mansr/statuses/117053337549039861Fri, 07 Aug 2026 08:43:06 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 07:53:07 GMT]]>@JustinDerrick definitly so. @inthehands @overholt

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodonsweden.se/users/meraord/statuses/117053140984146924https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodonsweden.se/users/meraord/statuses/117053140984146924Fri, 07 Aug 2026 07:53:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 07:27:19 GMT]]>@Eurospoofer @inthehands You still have to solve the availability of reading hardware and software in 100 years.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/jernej__s/statuses/117053039553991001https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/jernej__s/statuses/117053039553991001Fri, 07 Aug 2026 07:27:19 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 07:27:08 GMT]]>@inthehands
That's totally true. I watched a French documentary on long term nuclear waste storage sites which have to keep them for many centuries (millenia even!) and they were researching solutions to keep instructions on how to (not) handle and keep away from the site for future generations (civilisations even) who won't even speak speak the same language. They chose acid free paper in climate controlled rooms for the first decades and century. They were also speaking about genetically engineering a new bread of cats to glow near nuclear material and had some idea on songs about being fearful of glowing cats because it meant danger. They say that's how stories travel through millenias and that could help future people to not access the dangerous zones of the site, even after a civilisation collapse. Far fetched but interesting.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/magnetic_tape/statuses/117053038850071116https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/magnetic_tape/statuses/117053038850071116Fri, 07 Aug 2026 07:27:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 05:56:00 GMT]]>@inthehands I've worked in numerical banks that archive their records. They generally use high quality optical storage. Gold or silver based cdr or mdisk. Both thought to last 30-100 years

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/Eurospoofer/statuses/117052680472443453https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/Eurospoofer/statuses/117052680472443453Fri, 07 Aug 2026 05:56:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 05:41:07 GMT]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://hub.azkware.net/objects/6e2ecb8d-856a-756f-f36d-d4c235513663https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://hub.azkware.net/objects/6e2ecb8d-856a-756f-f36d-d4c235513663Fri, 07 Aug 2026 05:41:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 04:53:13 GMT]]>@inthehands the quipy way I've heard this described is that in archival efforts, you dont have "storage," you have "movage."

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/liquidlamp/statuses/117052433588356871https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/liquidlamp/statuses/117052433588356871Fri, 07 Aug 2026 04:53:13 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 04:03:39 GMT]]>@inthehands Related: https://www.lockss.org/

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://chaos.social/users/ChuckMcManis/statuses/117052238692190236https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://chaos.social/users/ChuckMcManis/statuses/117052238692190236Fri, 07 Aug 2026 04:03:39 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 03:41:57 GMT]]>@lhauser @inthehands

Yes that is true but that's the same failure mode of every single site storage system, including libraries as in the original quoted post. Having additional redundancy in multiple locations is important for some information but each location needs to have that kind of maintenance happening for properly long term storage

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://masto.nyc/users/gbargoud/statuses/117052153361537005https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://masto.nyc/users/gbargoud/statuses/117052153361537005Fri, 07 Aug 2026 03:41:57 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 03:11:46 GMT]]>@inthehands data storage is the easy part. Being able to decode the stored data long after the computers that wrote it are obsolete and no machine is available that can run the old binaries is the fun part. Even if you have carefully forward copied all the bits onto media you can read, the bits are just the starting point.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.online/users/MartyFouts/statuses/117052034673131512https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.online/users/MartyFouts/statuses/117052034673131512Fri, 07 Aug 2026 03:11:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 02:33:35 GMT]]>@inthehands LOCKSS (Lots of Copies Keep Stuff Safe) tries to mitigate the problem of integrity when copying files forward. TL:DR - min 4 copies with continuous file integrity checks.

https://www.lockss.org

(edit: it's mentioned in the Gizmodo article)

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/cshishido/statuses/117051884507640038https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/cshishido/statuses/117051884507640038Fri, 07 Aug 2026 02:33:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Back in 1999 or so, I was on the team that helped Minnesota Public Radio choose a long-term storage format for their (extensive and valuable!!) audio archives, which they were about to digitize. on Fri, 07 Aug 2026 02:31:08 GMT]]>@inthehands - I remember a conversation with Ciaran McGinley at the EPO about his push for continuous media cycling to ensure that readers still functioned for the chosen medium.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/clark/statuses/117051874876596208https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/clark/statuses/117051874876596208Fri, 07 Aug 2026 02:31:08 GMT