<![CDATA[Let me get this straight...]]>Let me get this straight...

The default setting for Signal on an iPhone allows law enforcement to see the content of all incoming messages, even after the app has been deleted? πŸ€”

https://www.404media.co/fbi-extracts-suspects-deleted-signal-messages-saved-in-iphone-notification-database-2/

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/topic/ceb1658a-3596-476f-9892-68a9775a6be0/let-me-get-this-straight...RSS for NodeFri, 01 May 2026 08:32:45 GMTThu, 09 Apr 2026 14:56:37 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Thu, 23 Apr 2026 13:07:20 GMT]]>@Mer__edith
What's unclear is what happens when Signal is not deleted? Or self-deleting messages aren't used. πŸ˜‚

People shouldn't have to wonder.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116454171654441700https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116454171654441700Thu, 23 Apr 2026 13:07:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Thu, 23 Apr 2026 02:46:20 GMT]]>@Mer__edith
Apparently it applies to deleted apps as well.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116451729778212779https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116451729778212779Thu, 23 Apr 2026 02:46:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 22 Apr 2026 18:20:38 GMT]]>@Mer__edith
This apparently is addressed as CVE-2026-28950

What is unclear is what is meant by

Notifications marked for deletion could be unexpectedly retained on the device

Is this only disappearing messages in Signal? Or any notification that has been acknowledged? πŸ€”

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116449741298473755https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116449741298473755Wed, 22 Apr 2026 18:20:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 20:24:48 GMT]]>@wdormann I've moved to telepathy. Use this link to start chatting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepathy

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/schtaks/statuses/116410593342138879https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/schtaks/statuses/116410593342138879Wed, 15 Apr 2026 20:24:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 15:26:46 GMT]]>@wdormann Now I'm wondering how Windows behaves here too. Can't test now but IIRC it does store notifs for at least a few days.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/AlesandroOrtiz/statuses/116409421451824432https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/AlesandroOrtiz/statuses/116409421451824432Wed, 15 Apr 2026 15:26:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 15:18:39 GMT]]>@wdormann @Mer__edith FWIW, at least some Android flavors have Notification History feature too. e.g. my Samsung phones have had it for years.

In UI it only shows 24 hours of history and doesn't show uninstalled apps, but not sure if older or uninstalled app notifications are actually deleted behind the scenes.

I agree Signal should have No Content by default. Also needs clear warning about risks when relaxing settings.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/AlesandroOrtiz/statuses/116409389491575231https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/AlesandroOrtiz/statuses/116409389491575231Wed, 15 Apr 2026 15:18:39 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 14:02:12 GMT]]>@buherator @Mer__edith
Signal has 100% control of this.
The screenshot is from the Signal iOS app settings.

Signal can't play the "We can't do anything about this" card. It's their default setting that is less secure than it should be.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116409088893597879https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116409088893597879Wed, 15 Apr 2026 14:02:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:37:23 GMT]]>@wdormann I'd agree with that, but I don't know what level of control apps have on mobile.

@Mer__edith]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.place/objects/1d5c2ca8-a9c3-4e50-bd7a-7ca6b121a2c2https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.place/objects/1d5c2ca8-a9c3-4e50-bd7a-7ca6b121a2c2Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:37:23 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:32:05 GMT]]>@buherator @Mer__edith

A path that would make me feel more comfortable would be:

We've changed the default setting in Signal to not put message bodies in the (external-to-Signal) notifications database. At least until the dust has settled.

But no, the battle that is being chosen is:
We are pleading with Apple to have self-deleting messages not be permanently retained in the notifications database.

I get that security vs. usability are usually at odds with each other. But I suppose I'd like a bit more transparency here.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408970501009551https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408970501009551Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:32:05 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:26:45 GMT]]>@wdormann As I understand they "knowing why" (as of now) doesn't imply this was *expected* behavior before.

I'd compare the persistent (not self-deleting) messages dilemma to secure deletion: below the next architectural boundary you can't really decide what's happening to your data ("were the bits of that file really deleted from the disk?"), but in special cases you take extra steps to prevent leaks ("let's overwrite a bunch of times, hopefully it helps").

@Mer__edith]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.place/objects/da2fc7e2-1534-496b-aa7b-a7ed485011f7https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.place/objects/da2fc7e2-1534-496b-aa7b-a7ed485011f7Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:26:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:16:45 GMT]]>@Mer__edith
Note the precise use of deleted messages here. When you uninstall the Signal app, that doesn't flag it's messages as "deleted" so that Apple can remove them from the notifications database. (If Apple would ever comply with Signal's demands. iOS (and macOS) don't have such a feature)

I don't think that this behavior maps up with users' expectations of the software. And for Signal to ship knowingly with a default setting that violates user expectations for a secure messaging app, well, I don't like it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Signal product, and I've donated financially to it multiple times. But this ain't right.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408910163851433https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408910163851433Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:16:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:45:57 GMT]]>@FritzAdalis @Mer__edith
Right. And especially given the black box nature of the iOS platform, it would be nice for some official statements from the Apple and/or Signal side of things.

Nobody wants to be surprised by things like this.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408789066170760https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408789066170760Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:45:57 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:42:53 GMT]]>@wdormann @Mer__edith
My expectation as a user would be that the os stores notifications until they're read, unless I make a change otherwise. It seems like they're stored 'forever'.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/FritzAdalis/statuses/116408776988876675https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/FritzAdalis/statuses/116408776988876675Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:42:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:33:12 GMT]]>@wdormann it is. I'm only worried about all the apps (or users for that matter) that rely on OS' built-in notification settings instead of more granular in-app-settings.

Again: not too surprising but leaves a sour taste nonetheless.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/AwkwardTuring/statuses/116408738946935549https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/AwkwardTuring/statuses/116408738946935549Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:33:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:27:55 GMT]]>@AwkwardTuring
It's easy to fix. It's just somewhat surprising to me that Signal ships with obviously insecure defaults.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408718177471107https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408718177471107Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:27:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 11:54:09 GMT]]>@wdormann that's exactly what I was worried about. It suggests that whatever the/an app sends to the notification service gets stored, since OS notification settings would most likely apply only after and not before storage. That's .. creepy but not too surprising.

Thanks for raising awareness!

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/AwkwardTuring/statuses/116408585365606870https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/AwkwardTuring/statuses/116408585365606870Wed, 15 Apr 2026 11:54:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 11:46:31 GMT]]>@wdormann @Mer__edith

#enshittification

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://orthographieanarchist.de/users/kobold/statuses/01KP8FDQR1HEQ5TDHAFFXHAGD4https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://orthographieanarchist.de/users/kobold/statuses/01KP8FDQR1HEQ5TDHAFFXHAGD4Wed, 15 Apr 2026 11:46:31 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 11:44:37 GMT]]>@Mer__edith
From a worse place on the interwebs.
Implying:
Signal message content being present in Apple Notifications database even after Signal itself is deleted is apparently expected and fine.

Signal message content being present for self-deleting messages is not (in their minds).

πŸ€”

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408547918008596https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116408547918008596Wed, 15 Apr 2026 11:44:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 00:28:00 GMT]]>@Mer__edith
From elsewhere on the interwebs:

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116405887352092342https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116405887352092342Wed, 15 Apr 2026 00:28:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Fri, 10 Apr 2026 11:37:43 GMT]]>@tdpsk @Mer__edith
Right, why is this data persistent at all?

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116380209227256937https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116380209227256937Fri, 10 Apr 2026 11:37:43 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Fri, 10 Apr 2026 06:20:32 GMT]]>@wdormann @Mer__edith from what I understand it was forensically recounstructed from storage, the database itself is non-persistent (on the software layer). So something Apple could solve in a future update, e.g. by regularly properly wiping that part of storage.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://sueden.social/users/tdpsk/statuses/116378962007945712https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://sueden.social/users/tdpsk/statuses/116378962007945712Fri, 10 Apr 2026 06:20:32 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Fri, 10 Apr 2026 02:47:51 GMT]]>@marypcbuk @wdormann The government has always been a threat to any left of center activists. The right planned their insurrection on public Facebook groups without precautions.

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/BLTpizza/statuses/116378125664422943https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/BLTpizza/statuses/116378125664422943Fri, 10 Apr 2026 02:47:51 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Thu, 09 Apr 2026 21:36:59 GMT]]>@grammasaurus @omnicore @signalapp
18.1.1, eh? If you don't install security updates, I wouldn't expect your experience to be like the rest of the world. πŸ˜‚

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116376903348736505https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/wdormann/statuses/116376903348736505Thu, 09 Apr 2026 21:36:59 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Let me get this straight... on Thu, 09 Apr 2026 21:12:51 GMT]]>@wdormann @omnicore @signalapp That’s not at all what I see on my phone for the signal app.

I’m using iOS 18.1.1–maybe the latest version has changed a lot?

]]>https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/grammasaurus/statuses/116376808452004590https://forum.fedi.dk/post/https://mastodon.social/users/grammasaurus/statuses/116376808452004590Thu, 09 Apr 2026 21:12:51 GMT