Your software seems to be removing the content warnings from the thread. Given the subject, that's not good

Wait, what?! I'm not a fan of trivialising sexual violence against women in this way.

> I'm sure it's quite bad out there

Yes, that is very much my impression too, nuances of this specific report aside!

Yeah, I think there could be an equally important study into these pressuring behaviours which _didn't_ limit the examples to new partners only. I hypothesise it probably would show similar tactics in different ratios.

I don't think I'm being defensive though. I just got nerd-sniped! Badly-explained stats about gendered oppression, how could I resist

Seriously though, in my opinion the researchers undermined their own paper by the ambiguity. It's poor scicomm _and_ poor politics to leave people with a first impression different from the real findings, and a resulting batch of "well hang on a minute does it really mean that". They could have short-circuited this whole side discussion by explaining their stats better in the first place.

@kanongil @Colman @neil

The study sets out its eligibility criteria, which do not include that, but it is definitely plausible that the scope of the study would appeal to such men.

if their dating profile says "i am young and handsome," then that's already two of those sexually aggressive coercion methods.

Yeah, I don't think the researchers explained that part properly.

The encounters where the men did or didn't use the pressure tactics were explicitly supposed to be with, so to speak, "new" women:
"Participants were asked “In the past four years, how many times have you used any of the following strategies to get (or try to get) a woman to have some type of sex when she did not want to have sex or acted like she did not want to have sex? (Only women you have recently met—no sex or dating history with them beforehand).”"

But what's not clear to me is, can an ongoing relationship qualify them into the cohort in the first place?

Is it that if they're in a monogamous relationship now, and therefore don't have any new-partner examples as per the spec, they have to think back to _before_ they were in that relationship for their example situation?

(If I'd been writing that paper, I would have wanted to give some examples of what did or didn't count)

But then also
"We chose a 2-year cut-off window to help ensure recall was clear"
"In the past four years, how many times have you used any of the following strategies"

That seems contradictory?

Maybe they haven't actually thought it through properly themselves and that's why they don't explain it properly?

@kanongil @neil

> Patriarchal society; girls are taught their self-worth is measured by the male gaze, boys have an expectation that access to a girl's body is their given right.

Yep. Toxic masculinity continues.

There is a lot to unpack in this report, and it makes me feel sick, also because of my own sexual assault as a kid (by a stranger).

Patriarchal society; girls are taught their self-worth is measured by the male gaze, boys have an expectation that access to a girl's body is their given right.

I'm generalising, there is too much to unpack in a single mastodon post. I do not mean to offend anyone, I'm just upset.

it's just still a pretty normalized thing which sucks and needs to change

Which means the experience for women will not change significantly, as the one hitting on them and flirting will nearly always be the coercives one. Ofc they need to be cautious. But also, even if a growing (or majority) of men were consent aware, the women would still mostly encounter one that do not respect consent. Just teaching consent is not enough.

I see it also with my SO. If I am not far from them, there is none of that behavior. The moment she steps out by herself to go for groceries or smoke, she gets hit upon. A lot.

It is hard for me to go stop behavior that do not happen when I am around. (I do still enforce them when they happen, but that is far far far less than what happens if I am not there. I know, she tells me)

both, and on that aspect, I would have been excluded easily for long tract of time in my life. Especially with the known figures for that age band rn. Sex encounter for young people has been dropping down for years now, mostly due to the reduction in unwanted sex. Which is also dropping (correlated with the drop in use of alcohol).

If you mostly take no for an answer and find consent sexy, at least in my circles and age band (I still am in that band) you do not get a lot of sexual encounters. I am not surprised that people that got sexual encounter enough to register in this are the one using this kind of coercive tactics.