Working helpdesk support with the intent of trying to find solutions that work well both for the user and the company really opens your eyes to this shit.

Sometimes users are lazy, yes, but never stupid. Pretty much anything anything people chalk up to stupidity is users following patterns they've often been forced into for years.

I will say there are sometimes no-win situations, where in order to act correctly a user would need to have knowledge that they just simply have absolutely no incentive to learn. But that's usually the company's fault.

it's the same picture

"do not punish the behavior you wish to encourage" is a pretty useful concept to introduce people to.

Yes we can try to educate (depending on our relationship) but we first have to acknowledge that the fact that the default state of computers is terrible is an indictment on the corporations that sell them, not an indictment of their users.

Imagine if you bought a new car, and you (yourself, not a mechanic) had to install seat belts and airbags and ABS and a number of other safety systems before even driving it off the lot in order to get car insurance. Sounds stupid, right?

And yet, that is what we somehow expect of ordinary users, and I am so, so tired of terrible defaults.

AND to Fi's original point, if all your users are idiots why are you designing for normies or geniuses? No, you're just saying you don't want to make the effort to communicate with the end user through interface and help.
@munin

and this cynical attitude disclaiming ability to make changes reinforces those patterns; do better.

Just because something is technically possible for an informed user does not mean that a user who has been -constrained from learning- will even know that such a thing exists.

yes, the part where the comment you responded to saying that -new users- who -do not have experience- have all of those concepts deliberately the fuck hidden from them by the UI they are given, such that - even if they are curious - they are actively lied to -by the research resources- on a regular basis, and thus have no opportunity for success -with- their curiosity.

The workflow you are describing is -not reasonable- for your average 10 year old in this year, and shows that you are engaging in the though process I described in the last paragraph of the -prior- post: https://infosec.exchange/@munin/116771824701213509

buddy, you can only have an interest in finding out if the resources are -there to tell you that there's something to find out-

you're blaming users for not knowing about something they're deliberately told doesn't exist.

that's fucked up.

and:

shit, the modern mobile OSs don't even want to acknowledge that filesystems exist in the UI. how the shit is a kid supposed to learn the "correct" way to do things in this situation?

get over it.

the fucking boomer dipshits are dying off, and a bunch of zeds and alphas are growing up with an ecosystem that's completely fucked for any attempt to learn on their own.

perhaps fix things for them instead of assuming they magically had access to magazines with BASIC listings and permissive environments where experimentation was at least tolerated, instead of being given a fucking menuless UI on a locked-down kiosk with fuck AI search results either refusing to give them necessary knowledge because it's "Hacking" or telling them to snort glue?