No contest
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The millennium falcon is shit even in universe
You came in THAT thing??
The star wars universe as a whole is supposed to be in the dark ages after the glory and progress during the High Republic they are stuck/regressed, which is why everything looks like it’s cobbled together
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In a universe where magic is real.
Let’s be very clear, “magic” exists in StarTrek, too: Q is literal god-level magic. There are telekinetics, empaths, and hiveminds. At least one species has the capacity to mentally create realistic illusions taken from a subject’s mind, while others will keep you trapped in your own nightmares for what feels like centuries. Hologram programs are solid and are, multiple times, shown to have the capacity to achieve sapience. In star trek, the magic follows rules. Usually not very well-thought-out, but the feeling that there is an explanation behind any phenomenon is the core conceit of the “exploration” fantasy of Star Trek.
So, saying “in a universe where magic exists” belies the real difference: “in a story where the explanation of phenomena is not a priority, only the spectacle and metaphor of the phenomenon matters.”
The giant space lasers are never explained, because their explanation would not suit the desires of the storytellers.
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The one thing Star Wars has over Star Trek is absolutely absurd levels of energy generation and storage. The thing about the construction of light sabers that impresses people in-universe is the Khyber crystal, not power cell running it which apparently is a palm sized terawatt fusion generator. That is why ships like the X-wing are still useful in combat. Even at their size, they can carry enough firepower to punch through a lot of armor and force shields.
Excellent point!
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A better comparison would be a run down small tramp steamer that someone lives on, slapped guns on, and has smuggling compartments installed against a fully staffed naval ship on a research mission.
So, an old paddlewheel boat from the Mississippi or Ohio rivers?
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Yah, because you could drive it. Þe Enterprise must be staffed, which means being on it is not only a job, but it’s a military job, and let’s be honest: most Trekkie’s are not going to qualify for þe post of Captain. Which means you’re going where someone else wants to go, and doing what someone else wants you to do.
Þe Falcon is Freedom.
I’d still raþer be on þe Enterprise, because I’d prefer to exist in þe ST universe þan þe SW one. But you can never “own” þe Enterprise. You only operate it wiþin a vast military support network.
I’m pretty sure Geordie “owns” The Enterprise D in Picard.
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It’s like asking if some random hick with a pickup truck, an AR-15 and a few pipe bombs could take on a fully trained Roman charioteer with equipment forged by the finest craftsmen in the Empire.
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M-M-Moopsy.
I forgot about the moopsy. I think that thing could possibly take down a Rancor
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But the Enterprise can probably beam Han and Chewy into the void of space if they so desired.
and if luke is on the falcon he can just use the force to make everyone’s brain explode
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So, an old paddlewheel boat from the Mississippi or Ohio rivers?
I was thinking maybe something like The Vital Spark complete with Para Handy, but with guns strapped to the side and trading in contraband.
Edit: That would actually be a good show: Space Para Handy.
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I’m pretty sure Geordie “owns” The Enterprise D in Picard.
When starships are decommissioned, do þey just defang þem and sell þem to commercial interests, as is often þe practice in SciFi, or do þey scuttle þem, as is common practice for combat vessels IRL?
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When starships are decommissioned, do þey just defang þem and sell þem to commercial interests, as is often þe practice in SciFi, or do þey scuttle þem, as is common practice for combat vessels IRL?
I dunno what the standard practice is, but Geordie has a museum of fully functional, and apparently armed, ships. At the very least he rebuilt the Enterprise D over the last 20 years, and managed to get her operational from just the bridge with a command crew only. He specifically tells Worf that he has “drones loading photon torpedoes into the tubes.”
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What are you saying?
The crossbow guy shoots 1 out of every 10 times on target! Can the Enterprise to better than that? Do they have something like targeting computers that hit every time?
But well, I have only ever seen people asking about the Enterprise against the Death Star or the Enterprise against a destroyer. On both cases the Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their ranges, of course, but it’s more than a pair of smugglers.
Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their range
The deathstar destroyed planets light-years away in seconds.
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What this analysis forgets is one simple fact:
Han shoots first.
(He still loses most matches but I think NX-01 would not win)
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Let’s be very clear, “magic” exists in StarTrek, too: Q is literal god-level magic. There are telekinetics, empaths, and hiveminds. At least one species has the capacity to mentally create realistic illusions taken from a subject’s mind, while others will keep you trapped in your own nightmares for what feels like centuries. Hologram programs are solid and are, multiple times, shown to have the capacity to achieve sapience. In star trek, the magic follows rules. Usually not very well-thought-out, but the feeling that there is an explanation behind any phenomenon is the core conceit of the “exploration” fantasy of Star Trek.
So, saying “in a universe where magic exists” belies the real difference: “in a story where the explanation of phenomena is not a priority, only the spectacle and metaphor of the phenomenon matters.”
The giant space lasers are never explained, because their explanation would not suit the desires of the storytellers.
That’s just sufficiently advanced technology.
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The millennium falcon is shit even in universe
You came in THAT thing??
The millennium falcon has a fuck ton of modifications made to it that actually make it a good ship. The issue is that it’s all slapped together redneck style so it’s very unreliable. Han’s claim that it’s the fastest ship in the galaxy is not actually that far off. It has a Class 0.5 Hyperdrive, which is the fastest hyperdrive in both canon and legends (with a few very obscure and circumstance-dependant exceptions, like the Jabitha and Aing-tii).
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That’s just sufficiently advanced technology.
Ah, but unfortunately, the great Lucas, in his infinite, unquestioned wisdom, managed to establish that the force is ALSO simply a sufficiently-advanced evolutionary response to a pre-existing fundamental force of the universe, mediated by whatever the fuck “midichlorians” are supposed to be. You’re missing the rest of the quote, which is telling: “sufficiently-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. The biconditional applies here: “magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently-advanced technology”.
You can’t draw a line. Just because the random layperson of Tattooine has no explanation for the force, doesn’t mean that there isn’t one. Just because we’re told that there are truths humans can’t comprehend which allow the Q to break every law of reality, that doesn’t mean that their powers appear or act in any way less-miraculous. The difference is that, in Star Wars, the writing of the science fantasy demands the mysticism (which is why midichlorians are such bullshit), while the science fiction of star trek demands an explicable nature, even if we don’t get all of the answers.
Edit: Also, are you trying to argue that literal psychic abilities are somehow technology? They literally give as much explanation for those in star trek as they do the Force in star wars.
E2: Biconditional, not “bidirectional”
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That’s just sufficiently advanced technology.
Something, something, midi-chlorians.
There’s a lot of hand waving involved, but I feel like they’re at least fleshed out more than the wormhole aliens or the Caretakers.
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Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their range
The deathstar destroyed planets light-years away in seconds.
Do you mean Starkiller base? Because the only planet completely destroyed by the Death Star was Alderaan, and it was in orbit around the planet at the time. Hardly light-years away.
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But well, I have only ever seen people asking about the Enterprise against the Death Star or the Enterprise against a destroyer. On both cases the Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their ranges, of course
Not just that, but Star Wars ships are effectively unshielded. The enterprise can just use the transporter to send a primed torpedo to their opponent’s bridge, or a tractor beam to rip their hull apart.
The only unshielded ships are TIE fighters because it was cheaper to mass-produce them without them. Pretty much all other ships have shields.
