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  3. When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

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  • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

    The ants can't just tell each other the size of their armies, also even if they could the enemy might lie!

    So they all pair off holding each other's mandibles and beating the other ant on the head with her antennae.

    If there are only a few unpaired ants that means war would be a bad idea and so they just skip it.

    graveolensa@mathstodon.xyzG This user is from outside of this forum
    graveolensa@mathstodon.xyzG This user is from outside of this forum
    graveolensa@mathstodon.xyz
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #5

    @futurebird (at some time I need to telephony: I need your help with something...)

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

      When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

      Ants pair off locking jaws with another ant of similar size.

      Any leftover ants from the larger colony will gang up two on one against the other colony.

      Then based on things only ants know either they all go home OR one colony overwhelms the other.

      But most of the time only a few ants die.

      michaelgemar@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
      michaelgemar@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
      michaelgemar@cosocial.ca
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #6

      @futurebird What does “overwhelm” mean?

      The notion of “counting” by pairing up is kinda amazing.

      futurebird@sauropods.winF the_roamer@mastodonapp.ukT 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

        The ants can't just tell each other the size of their armies, also even if they could the enemy might lie!

        So they all pair off holding each other's mandibles and beating the other ant on the head with her antennae.

        If there are only a few unpaired ants that means war would be a bad idea and so they just skip it.

        soniop@eldritch.cafeS This user is from outside of this forum
        soniop@eldritch.cafeS This user is from outside of this forum
        soniop@eldritch.cafe
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #7

        @futurebird ants are so cool

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        0
        • michaelgemar@cosocial.caM michaelgemar@cosocial.ca

          @futurebird What does “overwhelm” mean?

          The notion of “counting” by pairing up is kinda amazing.

          futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
          futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
          futurebird@sauropods.win
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #8

          @michaelgemar

          The purpose of these battles... what initiates and ends them, is unknown. There are some theories. The simple one is that the winners take over some of the foraging territory of the losers, but observations don't totally support this.

          Another idea is that it's all about heated patches of sidewalk. The space under the warm rock is ideal for raising alates and the battles occur in the lead up to nuptial flights. The ants take over the heated nesting spot under the battlefield.

          futurebird@sauropods.winF michaelgemar@cosocial.caM 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

            The ants can't just tell each other the size of their armies, also even if they could the enemy might lie!

            So they all pair off holding each other's mandibles and beating the other ant on the head with her antennae.

            If there are only a few unpaired ants that means war would be a bad idea and so they just skip it.

            the_roamer@mastodonapp.ukT This user is from outside of this forum
            the_roamer@mastodonapp.ukT This user is from outside of this forum
            the_roamer@mastodonapp.uk
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #9

            @futurebird

            Remarkable. The ants in their combat behaviour actively realise set-theoretical counting principles, and by doing that, they realise a strategy that is mutually advantageous for both colonies and thus beneficial for the species. Brilliant & enchanting.

            I was gloomy a moment ago, but having seen your post I am all cheered up! 🙂 Whatever else happens, something is deeply right with the world if deep mathematical structures emerge from ant behaviour!

            Your beautiful account is the most Mastodonian of all Mastodon accounts. Tooting for enlightenment and joy. Thank you.

            #ants #GeorgCantor #RichardDedekind #SunTzu #strategy #TetramoriumImmigrans

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            • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

              @michaelgemar

              The purpose of these battles... what initiates and ends them, is unknown. There are some theories. The simple one is that the winners take over some of the foraging territory of the losers, but observations don't totally support this.

              Another idea is that it's all about heated patches of sidewalk. The space under the warm rock is ideal for raising alates and the battles occur in the lead up to nuptial flights. The ants take over the heated nesting spot under the battlefield.

              futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
              futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
              futurebird@sauropods.win
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #10

              @michaelgemar

              In the wild they would have fought over flat rocks that rested in the sun. By making sidewalks we have given them an endless paradise, but even so, some tiles are more desirable than others since they get better sun, or maybe there is a sprinkler! Very fancy digs!

              futurebird@sauropods.winF 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • michaelgemar@cosocial.caM michaelgemar@cosocial.ca

                @futurebird What does “overwhelm” mean?

                The notion of “counting” by pairing up is kinda amazing.

                the_roamer@mastodonapp.ukT This user is from outside of this forum
                the_roamer@mastodonapp.ukT This user is from outside of this forum
                the_roamer@mastodonapp.uk
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #11

                @michaelgemar @futurebird

                It really is amazing, isn't it.

                Such pairing up is what the set theorist of the 19th century did when they defined the "size" of a set by matching two sets element-by-element, and here we see that these ant colonies had used the same definition all along! And doing so saved lives! Brilliant.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                  @michaelgemar

                  In the wild they would have fought over flat rocks that rested in the sun. By making sidewalks we have given them an endless paradise, but even so, some tiles are more desirable than others since they get better sun, or maybe there is a sprinkler! Very fancy digs!

                  futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                  futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                  futurebird@sauropods.win
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #12

                  @michaelgemar

                  Tetramorium immigrans have been called habitat specialists. Normally in a wild forest flat rocks on well drained soil in the sun would be rare and the "wars" may have evolved to decide who gets to keep the rock. But sidewalk ants both have pretty good homes, though one might be a bit warmer, so they pair up find out they are both very numerous and similar in size and then go home.

                  The first Tetramorium immigrans queen to find a sidewalk must have been amazed.

                  futurebird@sauropods.winF 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                    @michaelgemar

                    Tetramorium immigrans have been called habitat specialists. Normally in a wild forest flat rocks on well drained soil in the sun would be rare and the "wars" may have evolved to decide who gets to keep the rock. But sidewalk ants both have pretty good homes, though one might be a bit warmer, so they pair up find out they are both very numerous and similar in size and then go home.

                    The first Tetramorium immigrans queen to find a sidewalk must have been amazed.

                    futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                    futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                    futurebird@sauropods.win
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #13

                    @michaelgemar

                    The paper I'm reading attributes the tremendous success of Tetramorium immigrans in part to their low causality "wars" they aren't the only ants that do this. Meat Ants in Australia and Dynomyrmex gigas (one of the largest ants in the world) also have ways of pairing off and sizing each other up that don't involve ants trying to kill each other.

                    And they could easily kill each other, ants are omnivorous predators. But when two ants of a similar size fight both can end up dead.

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                    0
                    • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                      When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

                      Ants pair off locking jaws with another ant of similar size.

                      Any leftover ants from the larger colony will gang up two on one against the other colony.

                      Then based on things only ants know either they all go home OR one colony overwhelms the other.

                      But most of the time only a few ants die.

                      shurykan@ani.workS This user is from outside of this forum
                      shurykan@ani.workS This user is from outside of this forum
                      shurykan@ani.work
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #14

                      @futurebird one ant is too many {I mean their dying, not their existence}

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                      0
                      • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                        @michaelgemar

                        The purpose of these battles... what initiates and ends them, is unknown. There are some theories. The simple one is that the winners take over some of the foraging territory of the losers, but observations don't totally support this.

                        Another idea is that it's all about heated patches of sidewalk. The space under the warm rock is ideal for raising alates and the battles occur in the lead up to nuptial flights. The ants take over the heated nesting spot under the battlefield.

                        michaelgemar@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                        michaelgemar@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                        michaelgemar@cosocial.ca
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #15

                        @futurebird So we don’t know what the consequences of winning/losing actually are?

                        I really find these ants astounding — they live in urban settings, in the hard-packed dirt under concrete slabs, and they seem to thrive.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                          When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

                          Ants pair off locking jaws with another ant of similar size.

                          Any leftover ants from the larger colony will gang up two on one against the other colony.

                          Then based on things only ants know either they all go home OR one colony overwhelms the other.

                          But most of the time only a few ants die.

                          oldclumsy_nowmad@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                          oldclumsy_nowmad@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                          oldclumsy_nowmad@mastodon.social
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #16

                          @futurebird

                          Maybe we Homo saps could learn a thing or two from them. We could size the "enemy" up (before declaring war or Special Military Operations), by square dancing with them.

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                          • jwcph@helvede.netJ jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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