Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
And no, AI isn't perfect. But Christ, anybody who points to the problems [with] AI had better be looking in the mirror and pointing at themselves at the same time. Because it's not like natural intelligence is always all that great either. [...] In the kernel community we do open source because it results in better technology, not because of religious reasons. And so we make decisions primarily based on technical merit.
Man, it's always the folk making proclamations like these who are the most abjectly bereft of self-awareness.
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Linux foundation members are listed companies like Microsoft, Google, IBM, and others. So I am not surprised that he is backing up his employer who pays his salary.
Other day Star Wars creators George Lucas recently endorsed AI in filmmaking, SAYING it is the "future" of cinema and comparing the rejection of AI to preferring a horse and buggy over a car. He argued that AI makes the creative process easier and that embracing progress is inevitable.
@nixCraft I don't quite understand. I don't know all the context, but I've read what Linus wrote and I think I agree. "AI is just a tool" or "you submit it you own it" (don't remember the exact words), I think that's right. Of course you should be responsible for the code you push, regardless of how you got there. Does he allow slop now? There is nothing suggesting that. Many teams struggle with the same now. AI can help. And we shouldn't allow slop. But it's not one or the other.
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Examples are there to see. Debian vs Devuan is just systemd. Then expand it to the scope of kernel.org.
I use Artix Linux which is like Devuan but for Arch users
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft Linus as based as usual, haters gonna hate and cry...
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@thejessiekirk @nixCraft They have no org-wide policy, the projects are supposed to handle it themselves. Krita bans GenAI, while other projects like KDE Connect already started integrating slop code.
I was really disappointed to find out. There is one large forum thread in the KDE forum about it, but nothing more.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
“In the kernel community we do open source because it results in better technology, not because of religious reasons. And so we make decisions primarily based on technical merit.”
Then why are they using this tool? The code it's generated for me so far has been unusable rubbish.
Which makes me very worried that Linux will become buggy, insecure, and unusable soon.
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@nixCraft Linus Torvalds is an asshole.
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@nixCraft I disagree with the personal framing around it, as much as I can disagree about it being a useful creative tool for software development - economics, environmental & social impact issues aside.
He's made very clear arguments of it being a tool like any other tool and he doesn't want to bring in other arguments into the mix. As a maintainer that's his prerogative.
I don't think he's taking this stand because Microsoft or Oracle is paying his salary. Silly thing to say.
His arguments are clear, but they disagree with reality. He argues from technical merit that doesn't exist.
Hence the suspicion of ulterior motives.
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Examples are there to see. Debian vs Devuan is just systemd. Then expand it to the scope of kernel.org.
@pauliehedron @futureisfoss @nixCraft Debian has used other kernels before.. see Debian/kFreeBSD and friends. So there is potential there...
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft I don't understand why he would "put his foot down" on this specific issue.
Is he at all concerned by the "productivity" of the volunteers? About the number of lines of code per day?
He even admitted that he wouldn't accept fully LLM generated patches. So why "put your foot down" on any discussion about it?
I'm sensing some Linux Foundation influences here.
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@argv_minus_one @thejessiekirk @nixCraft Initially learned about it here: https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware/issues/580#issue-4737356
This motivated me to join their matrix server and ask about their policies. I was then told there isn't a org-wide policy and was redirected to the forum thread (I don't have it saved, otherwise I'd have linked it too).
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft go Hurd !
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I wonder how practical it is to maintain a fork of Linux without any AI generated code.
@futureisfoss @nixCraft You can fork anything, and the fork continues to work. The trouble is if you want to keep parity with all the future device drivers added to Linux, all the new features added, and all the bug and security fixes. That is an enormous effort, requiring thousands of people. Increasingly the burden of that work has shifted from enthusiasts and academics to teams of full-time software engineers working at their day jobs. Linux is big business now, and has been for some time.
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@radicalabacus @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms
All of the major #BSDs allow AI code. Even #OpenBSD. https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware#operating-systems
In light of all the horror stories of vibe coders getting hacked, this seems really really really bad for security. I don't know what OS to use now.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
I'm tired of influential idiots.
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@radicalabacus @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms
All of the major #BSDs allow AI code. Even #OpenBSD. https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware#operating-systems
In light of all the horror stories of vibe coders getting hacked, this seems really really really bad for security. I don't know what OS to use now.
@argv_minus_one @radicalabacus @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms Haiku, Redox OS.
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@radicalabacus @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms
All of the major #BSDs allow AI code. Even #OpenBSD. https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware#operating-systems
In light of all the horror stories of vibe coders getting hacked, this seems really really really bad for security. I don't know what OS to use now.
@argv_minus_one @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms damn, that's terrible news, thanks for the heads up. FreeDOS? CP/M? Dark times
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@argv_minus_one @radicalabacus @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms Haiku, Redox OS.
@yoasif @argv_minus_one @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms I played with Haiku many years ago; not quite to my taste superficially but very impressive and cute. If the UX is customizable I could learn to love it, especially since I'm sure it's progressed since last I took a shallow look. Have they committed to avoiding slop? Has anyone?
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@yoasif @argv_minus_one @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms I played with Haiku many years ago; not quite to my taste superficially but very impressive and cute. If the UX is customizable I could learn to love it, especially since I'm sure it's progressed since last I took a shallow look. Have they committed to avoiding slop? Has anyone?
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@argv_minus_one @radicalabacus @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms Haiku, Redox OS.
@yoasif @argv_minus_one @nixCraft @loadhigh @faraiwe @Stefan_S_from_H @geospacedman @marcusxms just wanted to add, Redox OS looks really cool, I'll have to check it out. Doesn't look like a convenient drop in replacement for a Debian daily driver necessarily but definitely interesting
