Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs "note that Jake, in presenting the kill switch and calling it a kill switch and getting it into all the papers as a kill switch, says he's uncomfortable with the name" - I was called out by name directly and deliberately.
@jaffathecake @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs yes Jake, because you’re professionally representing your employer when writing under a supposedly official account.
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@firefoxwebdevs @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard it doesn't matter and the results don't matter either. do you know why? do you know what properties a poll needs in order to be meaningful?
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@jaffathecake @zzt @firefoxwebdevs i'm sure you'll reveal the culprit who hacked the account and posted it forthwith
@davidgerard @zzt @firefoxwebdevs It's telling that you can't admit that you (deliberately?) misrepresented me to stir outrage.
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@zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard My interpretation of the poll results is that the vast majority of people feel that the translation engine should be disabled as part of an AI kill switch, but there should be a way to re-enable the translation engine whilst leaving the kill switch otherwise active.
@firefoxwebdevs @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet Have a general "AI disable button" with sub categories for people who want only some things.
It's already like that in the search configuration page.
What's as important imo is to have an introduction/pedagogical page to changes made where options like this are introduced when updates are done where people can enable/disable them.
I know it's like only 10% of any users who read, but it will satisfy most more skilled people, and it might bring knowledge to some people. -
@jaffathecake @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs yes Jake, because you’re professionally representing your employer when writing under a supposedly official account.
@zzt @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs and I didn't say I'm uncomfortable with the name, which is the claim that was put directly to me. I think it's reasonable to push back against that false claim.
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@david_chisnall @davidgerard @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @zzt I agree that the term 'AI' is kinda meaningless, and it results in the ambiguities mentioned in the poll. However, people are asking for 'no AI' or a way to disable 'AI'. Even tech folks.
@firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @zzt
Which is happening because you are shipping feature that you call AI and your new CEO has called Firefox an ‘AI first browser’, because he is completely and totally unqualified for his job.
Stop doing that. And then you can have a useful discussion about any ML models that you are shipping (which, I agree, should be plugins, but so should a lot of things Firefox bundles).
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@m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs what exactly is bad about not delivering functionality that benefits basically everyone (my English, I claim, is fine, but I can't read a word of Japanese and Spanish is mostly guesswork; most humans read no more than 3 languages)? How exactly does it detract from Firefox being an enabler of the Open Web that they do, by default, enable the Open Web crosslingually?
@funkylab Frankly, because they very obviously need to put the effort into improving the core browser. By all means, they can prompt for a plug-in on installation, there are many around, and they are part of the Open Web rather than something you get plumbed in as if it were some piece of Microsoft bloatware. If they don't fix the browser, the whole concept of the Open Web becomes moot. @m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs
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@davidgerard @zzt @firefoxwebdevs It's telling that you can't admit that you (deliberately?) misrepresented me to stir outrage.
@jaffathecake @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs it’s telling that you can’t admit that you deliberately misrepresented community consensus to push horseshit into the browser I use
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@firefoxwebdevs @mawhrin @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard
Voting in that poll legitimises a kill switch as a viable solution. Hence the flood of responses from people who don't want to say "yes" or "no" about how a thing they don't want works.
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@davidgerard @zzt @firefoxwebdevs It's telling that you can't admit that you (deliberately?) misrepresented me to stir outrage.
@jaffathecake @zzt @firefoxwebdevs your outrage is entirely performative and I don't believe you
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@firefoxwebdevs This is insulting.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs How about "don't put pointless AI bullshit into your browser in the first place so you don't have to ask asinine loaded questions like this to try to con people into not turning all that shit off.
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@zzt @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs this account will be shut down by the incoming AI CMO anyway as unauthorised marketing
@davidgerard @zzt @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs He sounds like a politician talking to the press. “I never said that.” “Yes you did.” “Well what I meant to say was…” “It was implied.” “Its the official position of the government….”
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@jaffathecake @zzt @firefoxwebdevs your outrage is entirely performative and I don't believe you
@davidgerard @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs nah just look at the outrage we’ve stirred:
- many posts constructively outlining a path for Firefox (all non-core browser features as add-ons that aren’t installed by default), more than sufficient to establish consensus in a good faith environment
- lots of passionately negative responses to the poll as presented, more than sufficient to discard the poll in a good faith environment
- plenty of emotional posts because Firefox mattershow horrid!
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@jaffathecake @davidgerard @mdavis@mastodon.social @firefoxwebdevs this is a real weird hill for you to die on
if you’re representing your employer and they’re uncomfortable with the kill switch naming, to the point where you keep encasing the term in scare quotes every time it’s used, then we can’t tell and frankly don’t care if you personally love the term. nobody’s here for Jake. do you understand that? we’re here because we’re dedicated Firefox users angry at the direction your employer has taken.
@zzt @jaffathecake @davidgerard @firefoxwebdevs
I'm not here because I'm a dedicated Firefox user. I'm here because: -
@firefoxwebdevs The frame of this question is risible.
I am begging you to just make a web browser.
Make it the best browser for the open web. Make it a browser that empowers individuals. Make it a browser that defends users against threats.
Do not make a search engine. Do not make a translation engine. Do not make a webpage summariser. Do not make a front-end for an LLM. Do not make a client-side LLM.
Just. Make. A. Web. Browser.
Please.
@m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs
This! So much THIS! -
@funkylab Frankly, because they very obviously need to put the effort into improving the core browser. By all means, they can prompt for a plug-in on installation, there are many around, and they are part of the Open Web rather than something you get plumbed in as if it were some piece of Microsoft bloatware. If they don't fix the browser, the whole concept of the Open Web becomes moot. @m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs
@vik
your sentence makes no sense: both as a plugin or integrated in a browser, folks are needed to implement it. The fact it would be an extension doesn't change that.Also it's not exclusive. There are people working on the translation engine. There are people working on improving the platform. There are people working on the Firefox frontend.
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@funkylab My point is that I'm Very. Tired. of every company trying to cram unwanted cruft into their products at the expense of core features.
Of course people should be able to translate webpages.
You may not have noticed from my tone but I was being somewhat hyperbolic for rhetorical effect.
> Of course people should be able to translate webpages.
OK perfect, so now you agree with that and you might be able to answer the initial question.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Where's the option for "I do not want this bullshit toy anywhere near my browser"? Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to be pro-slop? Why are all the executives so into this crap? Can't we just let them have their cocaine daydreams without subject the rest of us to it?
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
Let's ask the real question:
Firefox users,
do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions?
