everyone should realize that e-scooters are a physically risky form of transport, especially when driven above about 20km/h.
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@adub 60 years ago my schoolmates and I discovered most of this by comparing the performance and roadholding of, for example, a 150cc motorbike and an equally powerful(?) Vespa or Lambretta scooter. Scooters looked cool but didn't handle bumpy corners well.
@pthane by e-scooters here i'm referring to these
(with battery) rather than these 
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@adub I'm frustrated by how much money we put into bikes. We could put that into decent transportation like a train or more buses! Things that don't involve showing up at work exhausted and sweaty and with horrible helmet hair, that don't become dangerous due to ice most of the year
@Canageek @adub well getting your employer to invest in bike storage, showers and changing rooms does help.
And you won't get any more sweaty than riding a london tube, less so if you take it at an easy ride and not too far - wind of passage when riding a bike is pretty efficent at cooling you. If you do more or faster then at least you are getting exercise.Dislaimer: I used to cycle 7 miles there and the same back when I commuted in London. But, yes I had use of showers, etc.
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@Canageek @adub well getting your employer to invest in bike storage, showers and changing rooms does help.
And you won't get any more sweaty than riding a london tube, less so if you take it at an easy ride and not too far - wind of passage when riding a bike is pretty efficent at cooling you. If you do more or faster then at least you are getting exercise.Dislaimer: I used to cycle 7 miles there and the same back when I commuted in London. But, yes I had use of showers, etc.
@marjolica @adub I work at a new first. we have all that, it's still sucks. I means I get to work sore, and I'm dripping wet for the start of the day.
When I was in my twenties there was a situation where the only way I could get to work was biking, and by the end of the week I was so sore every week. I couldn't do anything all weekend until Sunday afternoon.
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@marjolica @adub I work at a new first. we have all that, it's still sucks. I means I get to work sore, and I'm dripping wet for the start of the day.
When I was in my twenties there was a situation where the only way I could get to work was biking, and by the end of the week I was so sore every week. I couldn't do anything all weekend until Sunday afternoon.
@marjolica @adub I tried again in my mid-thirties, just biking for kilometer between two buildings that I work at. After the third time I crashed the bike (into a thorn bush) I gave up and just have walked between them or taking the bus everyday since.
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@Canageek it's not a case of either or. we can have both and.
@adub Yes, it is, municipal budgets are a zero-sum game. If you spend money on bike lanes, you don't have that money to put it into buses.
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Once you understand how many elegant self-correcting mechanisms are built into a bicycle, it's hard not to appreciate that it's one of the most successful dynamically stable machines ever invented.
It's also the most thermodynamically efficient way to convey a human ever invented, among conveyances available to the general public, per person per kilometre.
@adub I’ve always thought it’s paradoxical that most scooter wheels have too small diameter and most bicycle wheels have too large diameter.
A couple of years ago I made the switch to a cargo bike with 20” wheels and couldn’t be happier.
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why do you think e-scooters are still illegal on roads in most areas of this province? it isn't because regulators are stick-in-the-muds. it's because there's a big injury burden associated to these things.
for starters, you're riding something with no protection from the road or other road users apart from what you're wearing.
and most importantly, e-scooters are nowhere near as inherently stable as bicycles are.
@adub@beige.party e-bikes also exist and they're freaking awesome
I just wish that taking a bike on public transit wasn't so expensive where I live (as much as buying a second ticket in some cases) -
bicycles have always struck physicists (e.g. me!) as almost miraculous. they are simultaneously:
• dynamically elegant,
• mechanically simple,
• energetically near-optimal, and
• extraordinarily cheap, as a conveyance.YES I DO LOVE BICYCLES. so should everyone, tbh.
with the added proviso that not everyone can ride a bicycle and that's OK. humanity will always need other transportation options. we just aren't anywhere close to bikemaxxing yet and we should be.
@adub I'm a fan of (unmotorized) kick scooters too. It's easier to trip on them than on a bike, but as you're already in a standing position you'll often be able to run the momentum off or just scrape the knee when falling, versus falling much farther and in a less advantageous position on a bicycle.
Also here in Germany, kick scooters count as free hand luggage on most buses and trains, whereas bicycles have restrictions during rush hour and require a whole second ticket just for the bike. And e-scooters have been banned completely by many local transit operators because a few shit-quality ones went up in flames and there's apparently no reliable safety certification system to allow specifically safe quality scooters. -
@PapyrusBrigade agreed, tighter e-bike battery safety regulations are sorely needed - so says the Toronto Fire Chief
@adub @PapyrusBrigade So says pretty much anyone that understands the physics and chemistry of lithium batteries and the reality of unregulated batteries.
Lithium batteries are dangerous as hell, and need solid regulation and certification.
Fire safety regulations in homes and businesses were written in the blood of a century of fire victims - fire is no joke.
We can't let our desire for cheap batteries impact safety or reduce regulation.
For the record, I like ebikes.
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@rupert That's a great mental image!
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everyone should realize that e-scooters are a physically risky form of transport, especially when driven above about 20km/h. if you fall off, you're going to have facial trauma at a minimum. just ask my 50-something brother who got stuck with a big dental bill. ALWAYS wear a FULL FACE HELMET on these things - a bike helmet isn't enough. and NEVER EVER ride with MORE THAN ONE RIDER on board.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-scooters-pediatrician-survey-9.7305210
My wife broke her finger falling off one of these things, not even at very high speeds.
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@geonz @adub And I'm not picky about how mass transit's done, I'm in favor of buses, street cars, skytrains, subways, ferries, and gondolas. Plus I'm sure there are mass transit options I've never heard of.
But it if gets public funding it should be accessible to everyone, for example, people with asthma like me. Not just the fraction of society capable of biking multiple km every day
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@adub I'm frustrated by how much money we put into bikes. We could put that into decent transportation like a train or more buses! Things that don't involve showing up at work exhausted and sweaty and with horrible helmet hair, that don't become dangerous due to ice most of the year
@Canageek @adub Numbers and budget documents, please.
Redrafted to add explanation:
It is not quite as much of a zero-sum game as you may think. Separated bike lanes are capital infrastructure which comes from a different pot than the operating funds needed to improve bus services (which, in Toronto, is run by its own agency that operates somewhat separately). Public transportation also has its own source of revenue, fares.
Like seriously if you're going to nickel-and-dime this stuff you need to show me actual budget numbers and explain policy-wise how that even works.
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@Canageek @adub Numbers and budget documents, please.
Redrafted to add explanation:
It is not quite as much of a zero-sum game as you may think. Separated bike lanes are capital infrastructure which comes from a different pot than the operating funds needed to improve bus services (which, in Toronto, is run by its own agency that operates somewhat separately). Public transportation also has its own source of revenue, fares.
Like seriously if you're going to nickel-and-dime this stuff you need to show me actual budget numbers and explain policy-wise how that even works.
@nev I get very frustrated with those "different pots of money" issues (I work in academia, we have SO MANY of those) as 90% of the time they are made up.
I have to charge people to use equipment that's owned by the department. So we are taking money already inside the university and paying ourselves to use our own equipment. It's all made up in most cases!
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bicycles have always struck physicists (e.g. me!) as almost miraculous. they are simultaneously:
• dynamically elegant,
• mechanically simple,
• energetically near-optimal, and
• extraordinarily cheap, as a conveyance.YES I DO LOVE BICYCLES. so should everyone, tbh.
with the added proviso that not everyone can ride a bicycle and that's OK. humanity will always need other transportation options. we just aren't anywhere close to bikemaxxing yet and we should be.
@adub I read up to the first parenthesis and started wondering why physicists in particular have a propensity for being involved in collisions with bicycles
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@geonz @adub And I'm not picky about how mass transit's done, I'm in favor of buses, street cars, skytrains, subways, ferries, and gondolas. Plus I'm sure there are mass transit options I've never heard of.
But it if gets public funding it should be accessible to everyone, for example, people with asthma like me. Not just the fraction of society capable of biking multiple km every day
@Canageek @geonz @adub don't forget or underestimate the role of bike and pedestrian infrastructure for access to public transportation. They don't stop at most peoples front door or destination, having safer infrastructure to get to and from public transport helps making it a lot more accessible!
Plus everyone that pickes up a bicycle instead of driving makes way for public transportation to become more reliable.
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everyone should realize that e-scooters are a physically risky form of transport, especially when driven above about 20km/h. if you fall off, you're going to have facial trauma at a minimum. just ask my 50-something brother who got stuck with a big dental bill. ALWAYS wear a FULL FACE HELMET on these things - a bike helmet isn't enough. and NEVER EVER ride with MORE THAN ONE RIDER on board.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-scooters-pediatrician-survey-9.7305210
Every time I see someone zip past on one of those scooters my stomach drops.
The center of gravity is all wrong, the tiny front wheel to obstacle ratio, the insane speeds...
I'm all in on micromobility. But those things just feel viscerally dangerous to me.
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@Canageek @geonz @adub don't forget or underestimate the role of bike and pedestrian infrastructure for access to public transportation. They don't stop at most peoples front door or destination, having safer infrastructure to get to and from public transport helps making it a lot more accessible!
Plus everyone that pickes up a bicycle instead of driving makes way for public transportation to become more reliable.
@wsslmn @geonz @adub I mean, that is a good point, but I would argue that means we don't have enough bus stops, and either you put the bikes on the front of the bus (Designs I've seen can only hold 2 bikes) or put them inside, which removes 2-5 people of capacity, possibly more of you pack people in like in Montreal or Prague (the places I've been with really heavily packed buses).
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everyone should realize that e-scooters are a physically risky form of transport, especially when driven above about 20km/h. if you fall off, you're going to have facial trauma at a minimum. just ask my 50-something brother who got stuck with a big dental bill. ALWAYS wear a FULL FACE HELMET on these things - a bike helmet isn't enough. and NEVER EVER ride with MORE THAN ONE RIDER on board.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-scooters-pediatrician-survey-9.7305210
@adub 100%. Knew a guy that got his front wheel stuck on a bump riding his scooter that speed, toppled over it in an instant, right on his face. He had the dental work, and two broken arms on top of that.
