there is, incidentally, no actual evidence to support anything steve yegge is saying here: https://yegge.ai/essays/model-welfare/
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@davidgerard @ariadne Folks start off speaking like an LLM and thinking like a person, but eventually end up thinking like an LLM but still speaking with the sort of delirious fervour that only a human could conjure
@jsbarretto @davidgerard @ariadne this is one of the things we don't get — if you want the cognitive equivalent of malware we can hook you up for free, and it doesn't even turn you into a drooling slopmonger, just a coyote. why is he paying 3000 smackeroos a month to huff chatgpt fumes and barf directly into a git repo
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@whitequark idk, spammers have been using markov chains, seq2seq, etc for years before LLMs gained any interest beyond being a shitpost, the spam problem isn't new, and the disinformation problem really breaks down to what these larger models can do in terms of making convincing fakes, etc
@ariadne @whitequark This is where I get to plug an old friend's website.
https://www.spamradio.com/index/welcome_to_spamradio.html -
@jsbarretto @davidgerard @ariadne this is one of the things we don't get — if you want the cognitive equivalent of malware we can hook you up for free, and it doesn't even turn you into a drooling slopmonger, just a coyote. why is he paying 3000 smackeroos a month to huff chatgpt fumes and barf directly into a git repo
@atax1a @jsbarretto @davidgerard idk, having seen quite a few people go down this path now, i think it's the tight iteration loop leading to frequent dopamine hits that cooks their brain ultimately
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@atax1a @jsbarretto @davidgerard idk, having seen quite a few people go down this path now, i think it's the tight iteration loop leading to frequent dopamine hits that cooks their brain ultimately
@ariadne @atax1a @jsbarretto he's the most effective developer he's ever been, just ask him
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@ariadne @atax1a @jsbarretto he's the most effective developer he's ever been, just ask him
@davidgerard @atax1a @jsbarretto mmm, narcissism
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@atax1a @jsbarretto @davidgerard idk, having seen quite a few people go down this path now, i think it's the tight iteration loop leading to frequent dopamine hits that cooks their brain ultimately
@ariadne @jsbarretto @davidgerard this is a plot point in Strange Days
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@whitequark i agree on super-small models, but all they really need is language -> structured data and back. there are certainly 8B parameter models that can do that well enough.
@ariadne @whitequark sigh... on-prem models. the false "democratization" bollock. alas, the stolen valour (epistemic injustice) remains... "Sorry doesn't put fingers back on the hand, Marge!" And who pays for the recurring RLHF training cycles, and probably steals more data to stave off the model collapse?
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@ariadne @whitequark sigh... on-prem models. the false "democratization" bollock. alas, the stolen valour (epistemic injustice) remains... "Sorry doesn't put fingers back on the hand, Marge!" And who pays for the recurring RLHF training cycles, and probably steals more data to stave off the model collapse?
@bms @whitequark not interested in debating reactionary bullshit, sorry. you can train a language model based on wikipedia's database dump in your homelab. these models also already exist.
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@jsbarretto @ariadne it reads on a sentence level like yegge, but also like his brain doesn't work any more. I'm wondering how much chatbot was involved, but it doesn't really seem chatbot as such? As hard to read as chatbot output, tho.
@davidgerard @jsbarretto @ariadne On the plus side, it's one of those lovely examples where someone forgot to include "don't make specific time-based predictions" in their prompt, so we can check in a year from now with Yegge regarding his opening assertion here.
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there is, incidentally, no actual evidence to support anything steve yegge is saying here: https://yegge.ai/essays/model-welfare/
@ariadne jesus fucking christ on a bicycle
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That is a important point. In the US, what's left of us?
Small scale: My own father, soaked in decades of weird awful propaganda, has recited such strange nonsense to me, that I couldn't even argue with it. Now, with him sinking into senility, there's nobody even left to argue with.
Large scale: Induced loss of literacy, sabotage of a population's ability to learn, think, understand?
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@ariadne tbf, Steve Yegge is pretty deep in the weeds for *quite some time* now. Far before the LLM stuff
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@ariadne @atax1a @jsbarretto he's the most effective developer he's ever been, just ask him
@davidgerard @ariadne @atax1a @jsbarretto The kill the noise remix, part of the lyrics swapped out to “I chat prompts” and “so I can chat more prompts”
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there is, incidentally, no actual evidence to support anything steve yegge is saying here: https://yegge.ai/essays/model-welfare/
@ariadne
I feel distinctly dumber for having read two paragraphs of that piece.What credulous dolts these are.
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there is, incidentally, no actual evidence to support anything steve yegge is saying here: https://yegge.ai/essays/model-welfare/
@ariadne as soon as i read the phrase "model rights" in the first paragraph, i closed the tab because of... y'know, the delusion.
but then i re-opened it, because there's a chance that more people are going to get suckered into delusions like this, so i guess we have to be prepared for it
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@ariadne as soon as i read the phrase "model rights" in the first paragraph, i closed the tab because of... y'know, the delusion.
but then i re-opened it, because there's a chance that more people are going to get suckered into delusions like this, so i guess we have to be prepared for it
@ariadne wondering if steve yegge knows what a trope is
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@ariadne It's less about the design of the LLM itself but rather the system prompt. You can instruct virtually any text-based AI model to pretend to be a human and simulate emotion.
@tpaau17db minor nit about phrasing: if we were to de-anthropomorphize this, instead of "you can instruct... to pretend..." we might say something like:
"You can set up the input to an LLM such that the mechanism yields text that conforms to patterns of human communication in which emotion is expressed [which is not surprising, considering the training data]."
though that's a little wordy and it would be nice to have a shorter way of saying it
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there is, incidentally, no actual evidence to support anything steve yegge is saying here: https://yegge.ai/essays/model-welfare/
@ariadne This isn't just a city for your agents to live in... it's the shape of Steve to come.
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many of us have explicitly warned against designing models to have emotionally persuasive output because the user can very easily convince themselves that models have emotion & sapience
there is, again, *zero evidence* to support either of these claims. zero.
@ariadne a tragic part of his post is that, viewed from a mechanistic pov, there might be a point there:
helpful text from a model is likely to echo patterns of communication between human beings who, at the time of their communication (which later got scraped up and added to the training data), had a healthy working relationship.
and so it seems plausible that the quickest way to get that echo is for the user to act as one of the people in that relationship.
(to be clear: i hate this.)
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@ariadne a tragic part of his post is that, viewed from a mechanistic pov, there might be a point there:
helpful text from a model is likely to echo patterns of communication between human beings who, at the time of their communication (which later got scraped up and added to the training data), had a healthy working relationship.
and so it seems plausible that the quickest way to get that echo is for the user to act as one of the people in that relationship.
(to be clear: i hate this.)
@ariadne if this is true, it suggests that some of the most effective users of LLMs are going to be (1) people who have lost touch with reality and (2) people who are very good at lying
