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  3. As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.”

As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.”

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  • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

    @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

    And when they after a while can't work (fully) like this, even at the price of giving up the rest of the life, they suddenly fall officially sick, from said "depression from social isolation" or "burnout".

    Just as possible way how you might come to see LongCovid sufferers but possibly not seeing them *as* LongCovid sufferers.

    Unfortunately not so many gps even dare to diagnose LC even though they're IIRC technically allowed to.

    project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
    project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
    project1enigma@chaos.social
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #42

    @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

    And who thinks about LC in the cases that might be just a bit less severe than the very stereotypical ones (but severe enough to cause issues)...

    project1enigma@chaos.socialP 1 Reply Last reply
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    • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

      @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

      And who thinks about LC in the cases that might be just a bit less severe than the very stereotypical ones (but severe enough to cause issues)...

      project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
      project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
      project1enigma@chaos.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #43

      @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

      LC is very not rare (link I sent, and others sent info too).

      oftencalledcathy@mastodon.ieO 1 Reply Last reply
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      • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

        @hoppla

        Another factor in absences from work (or leaving the workforce completely)

        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0025775326001417

        project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
        project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #44

        @hoppla

        And where less social contact really has health impacts (causality this way round instead of "I'm chronically ill and experiencing the typical let down that most chronically ill people experience"), make social contact safer again.

        #CleanAir #MaskUp #CovidIsNotOver

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

          As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

          If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

          In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

          #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

          sui@troet.cafeS This user is from outside of this forum
          sui@troet.cafeS This user is from outside of this forum
          sui@troet.cafe
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #45

          @hoppla People should more often avoid work and go on strike. They make all the profits, but the corporate king takes several million from it, while the employees are still cheated out of their minimum wages.

          So join a union!

          https://jacobin.com/2023/10/uaw-strike-big-three-historic-wins-worker-power-tentative-agreements

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          • essexman@mastodon.socialE essexman@mastodon.social

            @hoppla I’d include workplace bullying as a factor

            project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
            project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
            project1enigma@chaos.social
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #46

            @essexman @hoppla

            True, unmitigated bullying accounted for a few weeks of sick leave accumulated for me. Before they eventually moved *me* (not him) to another team.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • androcat@toot.catA androcat@toot.cat

              @hoppla

              You probably know this, but I am going to say it anyway:

              "people don't want to work" is not worth struggling over.

              It is an obvious piece of fascist propaganda.

              A far-right myth of an undeserving people "mooching off our poor hard-working job-creators".

              What a joke. It's so clumsy and obvious.

              Throw it down and step on it.

              If peopel are getting sick more: It's covid. It's car exhausts. It's hateful middle-aged men with power. All of that is enough to make a person sick.

              einspossum@chaos.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
              einspossum@chaos.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
              einspossum@chaos.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #47

              @androcat @hoppla People shouldnt want to work, people shouldnt be forced to work. Whats called work today is largely bullshit.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                @zash I can't applaud loud enough for this view. In a world shifted by AI we need a radical new understanding about what we want to call work. As far as I comphrend social sciences is working on it for decades already.

                project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                project1enigma@chaos.social
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #48

                @hoppla @zash

                Guess why fascists and radical conservatives want to get rid of social studies and other "soft" sciences.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                  As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                  If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                  In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                  #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                  birk_lab@fediscience.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
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                  birk_lab@fediscience.org
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #49

                  @hoppla Not to mention how happy you will be if everybody who just stayed home for a day when they ate something wrong now comes in to your office for a sick note instead. which of course will be longer than one or two days.

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                  • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

                    @hoppla @feisty_lemming @ABScientist

                    LC is very not rare (link I sent, and others sent info too).

                    oftencalledcathy@mastodon.ieO This user is from outside of this forum
                    oftencalledcathy@mastodon.ieO This user is from outside of this forum
                    oftencalledcathy@mastodon.ie
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #50

                    @hoppla @project1enigma @ABScientist @feisty_lemming here in Ireland, I’m seeing that people want any diagnosis except Long Covid, there’s a strong stigma attached to it

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                      As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                      If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                      In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                      #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                      da_gut@dice.campD This user is from outside of this forum
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                      da_gut@dice.camp
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #51

                      @hoppla it’s the same in the United States.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                        As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                        If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                        In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                        #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                        treehugger@sciences.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                        treehugger@sciences.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                        treehugger@sciences.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #52

                        @hoppla
                        I stopped working in march because of long COVID. I probably would've stopped earlier but was lucky to have a 9h per week job and needed the money. The difficulty is when quitting work helps you improve, people think you are fine and can work.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • androcat@toot.catA androcat@toot.cat

                          @hoppla

                          You probably know this, but I am going to say it anyway:

                          "people don't want to work" is not worth struggling over.

                          It is an obvious piece of fascist propaganda.

                          A far-right myth of an undeserving people "mooching off our poor hard-working job-creators".

                          What a joke. It's so clumsy and obvious.

                          Throw it down and step on it.

                          If peopel are getting sick more: It's covid. It's car exhausts. It's hateful middle-aged men with power. All of that is enough to make a person sick.

                          old_it_geek@techhub.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                          old_it_geek@techhub.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                          old_it_geek@techhub.social
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #53

                          @androcat @hoppla if everybody worked ie had a job the economy would be at full capacity and the RBA would be increasing interest rates to slow it down.

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                          • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                            As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                            If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                            In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                            #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                            d1ss0nanz@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                            d1ss0nanz@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                            d1ss0nanz@mastodon.social
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #54

                            @hoppla
                            https://mastodon.social/@d1ss0nanz/116894049878529029

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                            • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                              As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                              If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                              In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                              #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                              postantiquarian@archaeo.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
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                              postantiquarian@archaeo.social
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #55

                              @hoppla another thing that Merz and co. don't realise is that if I call my doc from home where I have made myself feel comfortable and the doc asks "shall I write you a note for the rest of the week" I am more likely to say "I'm sure I'll feel fine in a day or so" whereas if I have dragged myself to their office and am feeling really rough I am 100% going to answer "God, please do!" to the same question.

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                              • anke@social.scribblers.clubA anke@social.scribblers.club

                                @hoppla Either the politicians who say these things have no idea what life is like for less privileged people... Or...
                                There's something my history teacher said: "They didn't say these things because they believed they were true, but because they had to be true to justify their plans."

                                ehproque@neopaquita.esE This user is from outside of this forum
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                                ehproque@neopaquita.es
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #56

                                @Anke @hoppla I think it's obviously the latter. The Spanish Right started an offensive against "absentism" in perfect sync, without there being any evidence that people miss work for any reason other than being sick.

                                They just want to end sick pay, it's as simple as that.

                                holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • ehproque@neopaquita.esE ehproque@neopaquita.es

                                  @Anke @hoppla I think it's obviously the latter. The Spanish Right started an offensive against "absentism" in perfect sync, without there being any evidence that people miss work for any reason other than being sick.

                                  They just want to end sick pay, it's as simple as that.

                                  holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #57

                                  @ehproque @Anke @hoppla Ditto in the UK with "Why are so many people taking sick leave?"

                                  ehproque@neopaquita.esE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH holliek72@mastodonapp.uk

                                    @ehproque @Anke @hoppla Ditto in the UK with "Why are so many people taking sick leave?"

                                    ehproque@neopaquita.esE This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    ehproque@neopaquita.es
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #58

                                    @HollieK72 we're actually taking more sick leave since 2020. Did anything happen in 2020 to make us less healthy? It's a mystery @Anke @hoppla

                                    holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • ehproque@neopaquita.esE ehproque@neopaquita.es

                                      @HollieK72 we're actually taking more sick leave since 2020. Did anything happen in 2020 to make us less healthy? It's a mystery @Anke @hoppla

                                      holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #59

                                      @ehproque @Anke @hoppla 2020? No idea!

                                      ehproque@neopaquita.esE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • holliek72@mastodonapp.ukH holliek72@mastodonapp.uk

                                        @ehproque @Anke @hoppla 2020? No idea!

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                                        #60

                                        @HollieK72 @Anke @hoppla I for one am older, fatter and balder; I blame Black Lives Matter

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                                        • hoppla@mas.toH hoppla@mas.to

                                          As a GP in Germany, I struggle with the claim that “people don’t want to work.” In daily practice, I see the opposite: many patients push themselves to keep working, even when they should rest. They worry about burdening colleagues, unfinished tasks, or upcoming deadlines.

                                          If we want to understand rising sick leave, we need to look at real factors: increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time, social isolation, and overall exhaustion. Reducing this to a question of “motivation” ignores both evidence and lived experience.

                                          In my experience, people who genuinely try to avoid work are a tiny minority. Framing the issue this way feels similar to old narratives about unemployment—oversimplified, misleading, and disconnected from reality.

                                          #MedMastodon #GeneralPractice #PrimaryCare #WorkStress #MentalHealth #SickLeave #HealthPolicy #Germany #Arbeitswelt #Burnout #PublicHealth #Reform #AU #Arbeitsunfähigkeit #Gesundheitsreform #gesundheitspolitik #gesundheitssystem

                                          patrick@retro.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #61

                                          @hoppla Some aspects of "increasing workload, constant pressure, lack of recovery time" are a bit hidden: I remember visiting my mom at her office job. They worked 8 hours, alright.

                                          But it was interspersed with various errands and wait times. Completed writing a letter? Off to the printer, then wait for 20 more seconds because you were faster than the device, go back, … Today: "email sent, next task."

                                          Today's 8 hours are different from 1990's 8 hours for such reasons alone (and while this is a white-collar / office example, other types of work eliminated such "waste" as well.)

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