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  3. People who are disabled, poor or on fixed incomes should be allowed nice things.

People who are disabled, poor or on fixed incomes should be allowed nice things.

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  • scotintraining@mastodon.scotS scotintraining@mastodon.scot

    @broadwaybabyto the persecution of the poor is interesting, as there is a viewpoint that the poor have done something to deserve it.

    This is despite 2 truths
    1 society is rigged against the poor- paying more than the rich for the same things
    2 the same factor thst makes people poor is the same factor that makes people rich- luck

    nini@oldbytes.spaceN This user is from outside of this forum
    nini@oldbytes.spaceN This user is from outside of this forum
    nini@oldbytes.space
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #26

    @ScotInTraining @broadwaybabyto It's an effective strategy employed by the wealthy, one that's been going for a while. The poor and those in need of support are there because they're bad with money and can't be trusted to maintain their own finances. Of course that leads to said people also being scammers and lazy yet making a lot of money from the system, got to get some of that Catholic work ethic going to encourage the guilt.

    These two aspects run counter to the truths you mention, people being in those positions due to issues outside their control and not having the wealth to get preferential treatment and the protections it provides. There's also the secondary truth that the more wealth is concentrated in fewer hands means less for others and kicking down is more easy on the knees than punching up because the gap is that vast.

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    • broadwaybabyto@zeroes.caB broadwaybabyto@zeroes.ca

      People who are disabled, poor or on fixed incomes should be allowed nice things.

      Society acts as though anyone receiving assistance should be forced to make do with the bare minimum ALL the time.

      It’s suffering as a policy choice.

      It’s cruel and unnecessary.

      highlandlawyer@mastodon.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
      highlandlawyer@mastodon.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
      highlandlawyer@mastodon.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #27

      @broadwaybabyto
      "Hearts starve as well as bodies: Give us Bread, but give us Roses."

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      • the_wub@mastodon.socialT the_wub@mastodon.social

        @fluffy @broadwaybabyto I remember such comments being made about single parents on low incomes in the UK in the 1980s owning VHS players.

        In terms of providing entertainment/distraction for your children the economics of a video player (whether bought honestly or "second hand") were hard to beat.

        A trip to the cinema was out of the reach of many people. Videos could either be rented, copied or swapped which gave such families access to new films that they would otherwise not have had.

        u0421793@toot.pikopublish.ingU This user is from outside of this forum
        u0421793@toot.pikopublish.ingU This user is from outside of this forum
        u0421793@toot.pikopublish.ing
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #28

        @the_wub@mastodon.social @fluffy@plush.city @broadwaybabyto@zeroes.ca killed the radio star, though

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        • broadwaybabyto@zeroes.caB broadwaybabyto@zeroes.ca

          People who are disabled, poor or on fixed incomes should be allowed nice things.

          Society acts as though anyone receiving assistance should be forced to make do with the bare minimum ALL the time.

          It’s suffering as a policy choice.

          It’s cruel and unnecessary.

          terrybtwo@ohai.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
          terrybtwo@ohai.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
          terrybtwo@ohai.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #29

          @broadwaybabyto This crosses over with a number of other issues such as our appalling school meals (featured yet again on R4’s Food Programme this week) or care for the elderly etc etc. It’s as if the English see social provision as a form of charity to be given suspiciously reluctantly and grudgingly rather than as social duty.

          killick@dmv.communityK 1 Reply Last reply
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          • aj@home.ajacks.netA aj@home.ajacks.net
            @broadwaybabyto Someone told me once that the key to understanding the conservative/right/rich ideology is that it all stems from the idea that rich people are rich due to their virtues and that being rich is virtuous, and poor people are poor due to their failings and being poor is a failing.

            After that day to me, all govt policies suddenly make perfect sense as to why the performative cruelty is so important to those who propose and support them.
            c_merriweather@social.linux.pizzaC This user is from outside of this forum
            c_merriweather@social.linux.pizzaC This user is from outside of this forum
            c_merriweather@social.linux.pizza
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #30

            @aj @broadwaybabyto Ah, the basic tenants of Calvinism. The rich are the "elect."

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            • edgeofeurope@mastodon.socialE edgeofeurope@mastodon.social

              @broadwaybabyto Dutch law does not allow parents to gift groceries to children if these children live on social security.
              If they do, the social security income can be demanded back (which of course nobody can do because you need every fucking cent of it to survive).
              Otherwise, the Netherlands is known as a tax haven (which the government denies). Companies can get away with just about anything.

              bouriquet@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
              bouriquet@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
              bouriquet@mastodon.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #31

              @edgeofeurope @broadwaybabyto Calvinist mentality in an otherwise fairly liberal society. Strange.

              edgeofeurope@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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              • bouriquet@mastodon.socialB bouriquet@mastodon.social

                @edgeofeurope @broadwaybabyto Calvinist mentality in an otherwise fairly liberal society. Strange.

                edgeofeurope@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                edgeofeurope@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                edgeofeurope@mastodon.social
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #32

                @bouriquet @broadwaybabyto we are calvinists before anything else

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                • broadwaybabyto@zeroes.caB broadwaybabyto@zeroes.ca

                  People who are disabled, poor or on fixed incomes should be allowed nice things.

                  Society acts as though anyone receiving assistance should be forced to make do with the bare minimum ALL the time.

                  It’s suffering as a policy choice.

                  It’s cruel and unnecessary.

                  arrrg@kolektiva.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                  arrrg@kolektiva.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                  arrrg@kolektiva.social
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #33

                  @broadwaybabyto People who are disabled or poor should have the nicest things. They should want for nothing. The result is that there would be no poverty and those with disabilities will be able to live free and full lives. How is this bad?

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                  • terrybtwo@ohai.socialT terrybtwo@ohai.social

                    @broadwaybabyto This crosses over with a number of other issues such as our appalling school meals (featured yet again on R4’s Food Programme this week) or care for the elderly etc etc. It’s as if the English see social provision as a form of charity to be given suspiciously reluctantly and grudgingly rather than as social duty.

                    killick@dmv.communityK This user is from outside of this forum
                    killick@dmv.communityK This user is from outside of this forum
                    killick@dmv.community
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #34

                    @TerryBTwo @broadwaybabyto

                    This is true in the USA, too. If you're poor, you must also be undeserving of pleasure, comfort, or ease.

                    "suspiciously reluctantly and grudgingly" is poetry. "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat" is nearly as good.

                    And it's EXPENSIVE to be poor. But that's another whole rant/rabbit hole.

                    terrybtwo@ohai.socialT 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • aj@home.ajacks.netA aj@home.ajacks.net
                      @broadwaybabyto Someone told me once that the key to understanding the conservative/right/rich ideology is that it all stems from the idea that rich people are rich due to their virtues and that being rich is virtuous, and poor people are poor due to their failings and being poor is a failing.

                      After that day to me, all govt policies suddenly make perfect sense as to why the performative cruelty is so important to those who propose and support them.
                      killick@dmv.communityK This user is from outside of this forum
                      killick@dmv.communityK This user is from outside of this forum
                      killick@dmv.community
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #35

                      @aj @broadwaybabyto

                      It's Aesop's hard-working ants vs. the lazy grasshopper again and again. This is a trope nearly as old as western 'civilization."

                      I hate "means-testing" in which you have to _prove_ you're poor enough to warrant food or medicine or an education beyond secondary school.

                      To get public education for your kids in my county, you have to prove you live in the county. If you own your home, the school can just look in the state records to see if you are the owner. A few clicks of the mouse and it's done. If you rent, you have to show a current signed lease. If you are so poor you're staying with a friend or relative, then you and that person have to sign a declaration in the presence of a notary public, who, for a fee, will notarize the form. Then you need to show the school the lease, and you have to come up with two pieces of "official". mail you have received at your address to enroll your kid.

                      Hello! If you've just moved in with your sister, you don't have "official" mail yet. You have jack shit. You had to leave your last place and you're trying to not miss more work shifts so you can keep your jobs. You want your kids enrolled as soon as you can do it, because the state claims they have a right to an education. This is just one example of how EVERYTHING is harder when you are poor.

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                      • killick@dmv.communityK killick@dmv.community

                        @TerryBTwo @broadwaybabyto

                        This is true in the USA, too. If you're poor, you must also be undeserving of pleasure, comfort, or ease.

                        "suspiciously reluctantly and grudgingly" is poetry. "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat" is nearly as good.

                        And it's EXPENSIVE to be poor. But that's another whole rant/rabbit hole.

                        terrybtwo@ohai.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                        terrybtwo@ohai.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                        terrybtwo@ohai.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #36

                        @killick @broadwaybabyto Vimes’ Boots Theory. #TerryPratchett #VimesBoots

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                        • the_wub@mastodon.socialT the_wub@mastodon.social

                          @irina @edgeofeurope @broadwaybabyto It is the clawing back of funds, which I class as a "cruel and unusual punishment" that I find most odious.

                          Let people "get ahead" legally.

                          Don't dock the crumbs that people manage to get from elsewhere on a 1:1 ratio.

                          thygrrr@tiggi.esT This user is from outside of this forum
                          thygrrr@tiggi.esT This user is from outside of this forum
                          thygrrr@tiggi.es
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #37

                          @the_wub @irina @edgeofeurope @broadwaybabyto it's the harshest part of it, for sure.

                          But the overall strategy is just to instill fear and insurmountable pressure. To keep the poor from even thinking straight, let alone organize.

                          Let's organize for them. With them.

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                          • jwcph@helvede.netJ jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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