Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:
-- Google
-- Slack
-- Meta
-- Microsoft
-- Apple
-- Too many others to listThese orgs cozy up to authoritarianism. They terminate your account for any reason or no reaso at all. They shove AI down your throat.
And yet, my workplace, union, and so many of the orgs I value and need keep using them and have no plans to ween themselves off. Yes, I realize current dynamics make all of this inevitable.
So I'm left feeling hopeless and helpless, which is a terrible place to be.
You are not alone in having difficulty convincing people to switch. This thread contains alternatives to several Big Tech offerings.
I guess the smaller servers are not cool enough for some, and others don't want to have to learn a new system. And there is the constant campaign against small servers, asking if they are safe and generally throwing doubt.
Also smaller servers are more vulnerable to attacks like DDOS and stuff.
So it amounts to a lot of resistance.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:
-- Google
-- Slack
-- Meta
-- Microsoft
-- Apple
-- Too many others to listThese orgs cozy up to authoritarianism. They terminate your account for any reason or no reaso at all. They shove AI down your throat.
And yet, my workplace, union, and so many of the orgs I value and need keep using them and have no plans to ween themselves off. Yes, I realize current dynamics make all of this inevitable.
So I'm left feeling hopeless and helpless, which is a terrible place to be.
@dangoodin If any of these larger orgs have the capacity to do like a "social media strategy", they should also have the capacity to build a strategic roadmap to leave big tech.
One step at a time, starting with the easiest steps and growing their experience.
It can't be like "we have no strategy to leave Facebook, therefore we're going hook, line and sinker". But I think that's what's happening.
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@dangoodin Perhaps a mental shift could help light a different path?
Those organizations have formed with people who are spending their focus on solving a problem. They cannot solve all problems and would rather exert energy solving the problem they exist to solve.
This is where Community helps. In a community, you have different people with different priorities. In your communities, you have you.
Do you have bandwidth to identify what your union is using, say, Google for, and get that shifted over to a better solution, at the cost of becoming the union's expert and manager in that domain?
My biggest concern with my union is its deep reliance on Slack, seconded by Zoom. Yes, there are Slack alternatives, but all of them require a large amount of admin work from someone with a fair amount of experience. They also lack much of the usability features of Slack. (Zoom alternatives are also not suitable for a union our size.) I posted a query a few months ago seeking Slack alternatives. I got a lot of suggestions and I investigated each one. NONE of them were suitable, given our limited resources.
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@dangoodin Noone NEEDS to use those comanies services. Any person, business or organisation can deside to stop using them. Then make a plan and line up other opions, and then moving on.
You're talking like a privacy-minded technologist. We are a minority. For people who lack tech skills, almost all of the alternatives are unusable to the average person.
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Agreed. But no one seems to be doing that sucessfully, with maybe the exception of Signal and maybe Mastodon. Yes, others are trying but the usability is often lacking and the security is untested.
@dangoodin I self host a matrix server for a dozen friends or so… it’s not made for normal people to run, and most clients suck differently
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You are not alone in having difficulty convincing people to switch. This thread contains alternatives to several Big Tech offerings.
I guess the smaller servers are not cool enough for some, and others don't want to have to learn a new system. And there is the constant campaign against small servers, asking if they are safe and generally throwing doubt.
Also smaller servers are more vulnerable to attacks like DDOS and stuff.
So it amounts to a lot of resistance.
Not to mention the non-trivial amount of work required. With Slack, you can register and account and host hundreds of people in 5 minutes. None of the Slack alternatives are that easy.
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@dangoodin If any of these larger orgs have the capacity to do like a "social media strategy", they should also have the capacity to build a strategic roadmap to leave big tech.
One step at a time, starting with the easiest steps and growing their experience.
It can't be like "we have no strategy to leave Facebook, therefore we're going hook, line and sinker". But I think that's what's happening.
Do you have experience with unions? The ones I know (my wife's and the 3 unions I have been a member of) most definitely don't have the resources required.
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@dangoodin I self host a matrix server for a dozen friends or so… it’s not made for normal people to run, and most clients suck differently
Yes, exactly. Try using Matrix in a 100+ union made up of mostly non technologists. The added friction makes alternatives a non starter.
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You're talking like a privacy-minded technologist. We are a minority. For people who lack tech skills, almost all of the alternatives are unusable to the average person.
Linux is usable by everyone, though many people may need help getting set up.
Everyone can use other search engines than google or bing.
Everyone can buy a degoogled mobile phone and use it.
Everyone can sign up to proton ot tuta for mail, calendar and more.
Everyone can get an account on a hosted Nextcloud service.
Companies and organisations with some economy can buy help with setting up and/or managing services.
The hard thing is makeing the desicion, which, acknowledged, includes the will to do some getting used to, some changes of habits, and maybe letting go with some convenience.
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Linux is usable by everyone, though many people may need help getting set up.
Everyone can use other search engines than google or bing.
Everyone can buy a degoogled mobile phone and use it.
Everyone can sign up to proton ot tuta for mail, calendar and more.
Everyone can get an account on a hosted Nextcloud service.
Companies and organisations with some economy can buy help with setting up and/or managing services.
The hard thing is makeing the desicion, which, acknowledged, includes the will to do some getting used to, some changes of habits, and maybe letting go with some convenience.
@dangoodin ... Of course noone needs to do all that at once. Taking one thing at the time will help, and it will become easier and easier.
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Linux is usable by everyone, though many people may need help getting set up.
Everyone can use other search engines than google or bing.
Everyone can buy a degoogled mobile phone and use it.
Everyone can sign up to proton ot tuta for mail, calendar and more.
Everyone can get an account on a hosted Nextcloud service.
Companies and organisations with some economy can buy help with setting up and/or managing services.
The hard thing is makeing the desicion, which, acknowledged, includes the will to do some getting used to, some changes of habits, and maybe letting go with some convenience.
I think you're underestimating the friction many of your suggested alternatives add to non-technical, non-privacy-minded folks. Conving my union to move off of Slack has failed and will continue to fail until the alternatives become as usable.
Yes, people CAN use alternatives, but the vast majority won't until they get much better.
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@dangoodin ... Of course noone needs to do all that at once. Taking one thing at the time will help, and it will become easier and easier.
Agreed. I'd love to start with Slack, but Matrix and other alternatives aren't usable for people whose mission is outside of tech (and even many whose mission IS tech oriented).
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I think you're underestimating the friction many of your suggested alternatives add to non-technical, non-privacy-minded folks. Conving my union to move off of Slack has failed and will continue to fail until the alternatives become as usable.
Yes, people CAN use alternatives, but the vast majority won't until they get much better.
@dangoodin That is no reason to give up.
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@dangoodin That is no reason to give up.
Agreed.
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Agreed. I'd love to start with Slack, but Matrix and other alternatives aren't usable for people whose mission is outside of tech (and even many whose mission IS tech oriented).
@dangoodin I think Nextcloud may be a better alternative to slack than Matrix (talk, circles etc) but then I never tried slack
