It is depressing if someone experiences hate on here, especially if it puts them off using this place.
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It is depressing if someone experiences hate on here, especially if it puts them off using this place.
I follow people that regularly raise these issues, to hear how bad it is and what the causes are.
Five things seem to come up most often:
- Lack of representation in software design
- Users not being able to control who can reply to their posts
- Moderation being reactive rather than proactive
- Allowlists vs blocklists
- Cultural problemsLet's look closer...
🧵 Thread - Part 1 of 7
- Lack of representation in software design.
Most FOSS is made by whoever is able to spare unpaid work and has the right tech skills to build it.
This often leaves FOSS devs under-resourced and thankless, rationing their time to deal with an avalanche of reported issues, prioritising what to fix with very limited resources.
If there was better representation of vulnerable groups in FOSS development and prioritisation, it might lead to better safety tools in software.
🧵 Thread - Part 2 of 7
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- Lack of representation in software design.
Most FOSS is made by whoever is able to spare unpaid work and has the right tech skills to build it.
This often leaves FOSS devs under-resourced and thankless, rationing their time to deal with an avalanche of reported issues, prioritising what to fix with very limited resources.
If there was better representation of vulnerable groups in FOSS development and prioritisation, it might lead to better safety tools in software.
🧵 Thread - Part 2 of 7
- Users not being able to control who can reply to their posts
The Fediverse having thousands of independent servers is one of its greatest strengths (https://fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse-on-so-many-separate-servers) but also causes whack-a-mole problems when trying to block hate.
If users could pre-emptively restrict who can reply to their post, e.g. followers-only, this would prevent hatemongers from random unblocked servers posting nasty replies.
Github users can vote for this at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/14762
🧵 Thread - Part 3 of 7
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- Users not being able to control who can reply to their posts
The Fediverse having thousands of independent servers is one of its greatest strengths (https://fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse-on-so-many-separate-servers) but also causes whack-a-mole problems when trying to block hate.
If users could pre-emptively restrict who can reply to their post, e.g. followers-only, this would prevent hatemongers from random unblocked servers posting nasty replies.
Github users can vote for this at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/14762
🧵 Thread - Part 3 of 7
- Moderation being reactive rather than proactive
Mastodon moderation currently relies on reports of bad behaviour: something bad happens, someone reports it to moderators.
If there was a system to automatically alert moderators to certain keywords, they could respond much more quickly to hate posts (and spam and many other problems too).
The mods would still be human, they would just be alerted more quickly.
Github users can vote for this at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/21306
🧵 Thread - Part 4 of 7
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- Moderation being reactive rather than proactive
Mastodon moderation currently relies on reports of bad behaviour: something bad happens, someone reports it to moderators.
If there was a system to automatically alert moderators to certain keywords, they could respond much more quickly to hate posts (and spam and many other problems too).
The mods would still be human, they would just be alerted more quickly.
Github users can vote for this at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/21306
🧵 Thread - Part 4 of 7
- Allowlists vs blocklists
By default a server federates with all other servers, unless a server is on their defederation blocklist. (Masto admins can find out more at https://fedi.tips/how-to-defederate-fediblock-a-server-on-mastodon ).
This is ok if you want to communicate with as many people as possible, but can cause problems if you're targeted by hate.
Admins who need to prioritise safety over connectivity may want to consider allowlists instead of blocklists. More info at https://fedi.tips/creating-an-isolated-server
🧵 Thread - Part 5 of 7
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- Allowlists vs blocklists
By default a server federates with all other servers, unless a server is on their defederation blocklist. (Masto admins can find out more at https://fedi.tips/how-to-defederate-fediblock-a-server-on-mastodon ).
This is ok if you want to communicate with as many people as possible, but can cause problems if you're targeted by hate.
Admins who need to prioritise safety over connectivity may want to consider allowlists instead of blocklists. More info at https://fedi.tips/creating-an-isolated-server
🧵 Thread - Part 5 of 7
- Cultural problems
The culture of a platform is so all-encompassing that it can feel like there's nothing that can be done to change it.
Perhaps there is at least one thing you can do to help though: Listen to a member of a vulnerable group if they find this place unfriendly. Bite your tongue if you feel like trying to convince them otherwise.
Listening should make problems clearer and change easier. (This is also a strong reason for diversity in software development)
🧵 Thread - Part 6 of 7
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- Cultural problems
The culture of a platform is so all-encompassing that it can feel like there's nothing that can be done to change it.
Perhaps there is at least one thing you can do to help though: Listen to a member of a vulnerable group if they find this place unfriendly. Bite your tongue if you feel like trying to convince them otherwise.
Listening should make problems clearer and change easier. (This is also a strong reason for diversity in software development)
🧵 Thread - Part 6 of 7
p.s. Admins should try activating Secure Mode
Secure Mode (aka Authorized Fetch) is a setting on Mastodon that admins can activate which makes blocks MUCH more effective.
It's off by default due to historical technical issues, but it works really well nowadays. I'd highly recommend admins at least try it, more info at https://fedi.tips/authorized-fetch
(It had a reputation for affecting compatibility and resources, but at least on my server it has run totally fine for years.)
🧵 Thread - Part 7 of 7
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- Moderation being reactive rather than proactive
Mastodon moderation currently relies on reports of bad behaviour: something bad happens, someone reports it to moderators.
If there was a system to automatically alert moderators to certain keywords, they could respond much more quickly to hate posts (and spam and many other problems too).
The mods would still be human, they would just be alerted more quickly.
Github users can vote for this at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/21306
🧵 Thread - Part 4 of 7
@FediTips We participated in some discussions regarding proactive moderation. Most of them were about the use of AI tools.
What seems to be missed by most of the folks building moderation tools is something so basic: let us set a few terms that are worth looking at in our own instances, and automatically flag them for review.
If we can automatically hide terms that we don't want to see, we should also be able to automatically flag them for review!
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- Moderation being reactive rather than proactive
Mastodon moderation currently relies on reports of bad behaviour: something bad happens, someone reports it to moderators.
If there was a system to automatically alert moderators to certain keywords, they could respond much more quickly to hate posts (and spam and many other problems too).
The mods would still be human, they would just be alerted more quickly.
Github users can vote for this at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/21306
🧵 Thread - Part 4 of 7
@FediTips oh hello
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- Users not being able to control who can reply to their posts
The Fediverse having thousands of independent servers is one of its greatest strengths (https://fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse-on-so-many-separate-servers) but also causes whack-a-mole problems when trying to block hate.
If users could pre-emptively restrict who can reply to their post, e.g. followers-only, this would prevent hatemongers from random unblocked servers posting nasty replies.
Github users can vote for this at https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/14762
🧵 Thread - Part 3 of 7
@FediTips Re: reply controls.
GoToSocial came up with a way (https://docs.gotosocial.org/en/latest/federation/interaction_controls/) to do this. It doesn't “solve” malicious servers, but it lets benevolent servers honor each other's inhabitants' wishes.
I'm drafting a “Fediverse Enhancement Proposal” document to make it easier for other projects to join GTS. It's progressing, but I have day job stuff etc. It might help to add a few collaborators.
Anyone comfortable w/ technical specs similar to this https://fediverse.codeberg.page/fep/fep/044f/ & want to help?
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@FediTips Re: reply controls.
GoToSocial came up with a way (https://docs.gotosocial.org/en/latest/federation/interaction_controls/) to do this. It doesn't “solve” malicious servers, but it lets benevolent servers honor each other's inhabitants' wishes.
I'm drafting a “Fediverse Enhancement Proposal” document to make it easier for other projects to join GTS. It's progressing, but I have day job stuff etc. It might help to add a few collaborators.
Anyone comfortable w/ technical specs similar to this https://fediverse.codeberg.page/fep/fep/044f/ & want to help?
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- Cultural problems
The culture of a platform is so all-encompassing that it can feel like there's nothing that can be done to change it.
Perhaps there is at least one thing you can do to help though: Listen to a member of a vulnerable group if they find this place unfriendly. Bite your tongue if you feel like trying to convince them otherwise.
Listening should make problems clearer and change easier. (This is also a strong reason for diversity in software development)
🧵 Thread - Part 6 of 7
@FediTips lol, reply guys mansplaining to trans women why they’re an ally then calling them white when they’re poc is mastodon culture, nothing makes a mastodon liberal fume faster than having to listen to the minorities he talks over
Watch a guy make an angry reply to my post
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- Lack of representation in software design.
Most FOSS is made by whoever is able to spare unpaid work and has the right tech skills to build it.
This often leaves FOSS devs under-resourced and thankless, rationing their time to deal with an avalanche of reported issues, prioritising what to fix with very limited resources.
If there was better representation of vulnerable groups in FOSS development and prioritisation, it might lead to better safety tools in software.
🧵 Thread - Part 2 of 7
@FediTips I've been quietly ranting along similar lines for awhile now: Software Uprising
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p.s. Admins should try activating Secure Mode
Secure Mode (aka Authorized Fetch) is a setting on Mastodon that admins can activate which makes blocks MUCH more effective.
It's off by default due to historical technical issues, but it works really well nowadays. I'd highly recommend admins at least try it, more info at https://fedi.tips/authorized-fetch
(It had a reputation for affecting compatibility and resources, but at least on my server it has run totally fine for years.)
🧵 Thread - Part 7 of 7
@FediTips I would also very much like the ability to (a) share my blocklists via API, and (b) automatically or semi-automatically implement blocks from trusted instances. (Each instance could be automatic or manual-verification, but there'd be a notification for admins either way.)
Whenever I propose this, someone always says it would lead to problems -- but I have yet to see a good argument for how.
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@julian Thank you for taking this up!
I don't really have any experience with writing technical proposals, and my understanding of ActivityPub is not super deep.
But you are right, this is something I would really love to see implemented by more fediverse platforms, especially Mastodon.
What would be the best way to help here?
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It is depressing if someone experiences hate on here, especially if it puts them off using this place.
I follow people that regularly raise these issues, to hear how bad it is and what the causes are.
Five things seem to come up most often:
- Lack of representation in software design
- Users not being able to control who can reply to their posts
- Moderation being reactive rather than proactive
- Allowlists vs blocklists
- Cultural problemsLet's look closer...
🧵 Thread - Part 1 of 7
@FediTips Friendica, and I think Hubzilla also, have followers only functionality already. So it's definitely possible to do in other ActivityPub projects.
Projects focused on maximizing "growth" hate follower only functionality though. (Which I've never understood because the biggest social network on the planet, dwarfing others combined, has followers only as a core feature)
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@julian Thank you for taking this up!
I don't really have any experience with writing technical proposals, and my understanding of ActivityPub is not super deep.
But you are right, this is something I would really love to see implemented by more fediverse platforms, especially Mastodon.
What would be the best way to help here?
@julian Also, I presume you know about https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-5624-per-object-reply-control-policies/2723?
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@julian Thank you for taking this up!
I don't really have any experience with writing technical proposals, and my understanding of ActivityPub is not super deep.
But you are right, this is something I would really love to see implemented by more fediverse platforms, especially Mastodon.
What would be the best way to help here?
@stefan The GTS docs already do a good job covering most implementation details. (Which is why I was hoping this could be done with a glorified copy&paste, oh well.
) But there are actually some loadbearing TBDs still in there, so there is architectural work to do, plus sections on consequences & limitations, UI recommendations and such.As we speak it's a solo effort, so if we get a few people together, I guess we start a chat room and a shared live document.
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@julian Also, I presume you know about https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-5624-per-object-reply-control-policies/2723?
@stefan Yes, I believe the heritage goes from FEP-5624 to GTS to FEP-044f. I'm hoping to FEP-ify the GTS schema in a way that harmonizes with 044f. I'll cautiously say that 5624 is encompassed or obsoleted by what GTS covers.
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@stefan The GTS docs already do a good job covering most implementation details. (Which is why I was hoping this could be done with a glorified copy&paste, oh well.
) But there are actually some loadbearing TBDs still in there, so there is architectural work to do, plus sections on consequences & limitations, UI recommendations and such.As we speak it's a solo effort, so if we get a few people together, I guess we start a chat room and a shared live document.
@julian By the way, I'm guessing you've tried reaching out to the Mastodon team?
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@julian By the way, I'm guessing you've tried reaching out to the Mastodon team?
@stefan I actually haven't yet, lol. You're right though, if we're making this a little social club then might as well.
@andypiper, @renchap, @dave You've mentioned you're working on reply controls too (as more of a distant thing if I remember right), so of course if anyone on the team would like to be part of the FEP process, I'm happy to have you.
