It's cool that we're all choosing open EU alternatives to Big Tech because we want to protect our data..
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@Gina I prefer the ethical component: choosing companies that do business ethically. That should indeed be the first choice, rather than where a company is located.
@AccordingtoWouter It's currently not a consideration at all, esp in large gov contracts. Larry Ellison is a ghoul of a person and Oracle directly supports the genocide in Palestine, yet we continue to do business with them.
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That goes for Big Consulting as well. Esp from a government perspective.
Can we not impose standards on the tech and consulting companies that we work with, that go further than "they seem to be able to host our data on EU servers?"
Instead, choosing ethical practices, good governance and steward ownership.
Example: France's Capgemini is selling it's US subsidiary after it was found to help ICE track immigrants in the US. Work with them instead of Accenture who continues to work with ICE.
Or better yet, work with tech and consultancies that guarantee ethical behavior from the start. They're out there. Make it a requirement in tech procurement.
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@AccordingtoWouter It's currently not a consideration at all, esp in large gov contracts. Larry Ellison is a ghoul of a person and Oracle directly supports the genocide in Palestine, yet we continue to do business with them.
@Gina Unfortunately! It would be nice if the ethical component were included in all tenders issued by companies or the government.
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@Gina Unfortunately! It would be nice if the ethical component were included in all tenders issued by companies or the government.
@AccordingtoWouter Yes, it needs to be a requirement!
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@AccordingtoWouter Yes, it needs to be a requirement!
@Gina But it is also a personal consideration for individuals. Do I want to use software or platforms that violate human rights?
And unfortunately, the answer is still very often: yes, I do, because my friends use them too.
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That goes for Big Consulting as well. Esp from a government perspective.
Can we not impose standards on the tech and consulting companies that we work with, that go further than "they seem to be able to host our data on EU servers?"
Instead, choosing ethical practices, good governance and steward ownership.
Example: France's Capgemini is selling it's US subsidiary after it was found to help ICE track immigrants in the US. Work with them instead of Accenture who continues to work with ICE.
@Gina I'd still be suspicious, though: Capgemini got rid of this specific dirty business after the press made it public.
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That goes for Big Consulting as well. Esp from a government perspective.
Can we not impose standards on the tech and consulting companies that we work with, that go further than "they seem to be able to host our data on EU servers?"
Instead, choosing ethical practices, good governance and steward ownership.
Example: France's Capgemini is selling it's US subsidiary after it was found to help ICE track immigrants in the US. Work with them instead of Accenture who continues to work with ICE.
@Gina Ping @publicspaces
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Or better yet, work with tech and consultancies that guarantee ethical behavior from the start. They're out there. Make it a requirement in tech procurement.
@Gina yet that is interesting statement, I think the same. Maybe "Smell Like New ISO Spirit"
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@Gina I'd still be suspicious, though: Capgemini got rid of this specific dirty business after the press made it public.
@jkb Yeah they claim they didn't know about it, which is plausible. But I commend them for immediately taking action and making a costly decision to do the right thing.
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@jkb Yeah they claim they didn't know about it, which is plausible. But I commend them for immediately taking action and making a costly decision to do the right thing.
@Gina That's fair.
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It's cool that we're all choosing open EU alternatives to Big Tech because we want to protect our data..
..but it would be nice if the argument for these alternatives would also focus on ethical consumerism.
Aka is it right to financially support companies that sponsor certain regimes (Oracle), violate human rights (Apple), are hostile to their workers (AWS), promote surveillance capitalism (Google), are detrimental to the planet (Microsoft) etc, when there are ethical alternatives?
@Gina that is the reason that I don’t use Amazon Google Paypal etc.
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It's cool that we're all choosing open EU alternatives to Big Tech because we want to protect our data..
..but it would be nice if the argument for these alternatives would also focus on ethical consumerism.
Aka is it right to financially support companies that sponsor certain regimes (Oracle), violate human rights (Apple), are hostile to their workers (AWS), promote surveillance capitalism (Google), are detrimental to the planet (Microsoft) etc, when there are ethical alternatives?
@Gina There's a lot to check before signing contracts / taking service. Would some sort of standardized checklist help?
[ ] Sovereign
[ ] Open Standards
[ ] Open Source preferred
[ ] Minimal data collection
[ ] Good data protection
[ ] Acceptable Cost of Leaving/Switching
[ ] Ethical
[ ] Sustainable
[ ] Environmentally friendly
[ ] ... -
@Gina There's a lot to check before signing contracts / taking service. Would some sort of standardized checklist help?
[ ] Sovereign
[ ] Open Standards
[ ] Open Source preferred
[ ] Minimal data collection
[ ] Good data protection
[ ] Acceptable Cost of Leaving/Switching
[ ] Ethical
[ ] Sustainable
[ ] Environmentally friendly
[ ] ...@jkossen it would, but they would probably need to be quantifiable as well.
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It's cool that we're all choosing open EU alternatives to Big Tech because we want to protect our data..
..but it would be nice if the argument for these alternatives would also focus on ethical consumerism.
Aka is it right to financially support companies that sponsor certain regimes (Oracle), violate human rights (Apple), are hostile to their workers (AWS), promote surveillance capitalism (Google), are detrimental to the planet (Microsoft) etc, when there are ethical alternatives?
@Gina
I cannot justify using any of those things. I do not use any of those things and I see their use as being in support of
Fascism, oppression, and authoritarian government.But then Ecosia uses AWS, it's like Russian dolls. You can't escape.
I have stopped working as a senior dev/architect simply because I couldn't find a company I would work for.
The last place I had a job and then didn't was in advertising, the technology stack was great. I couldn't deal with it ethically. I actually never worked there.I've simply given up trying to find a place where I might fit.
I create things for myself and hope other people will like them and use them.
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It's cool that we're all choosing open EU alternatives to Big Tech because we want to protect our data..
..but it would be nice if the argument for these alternatives would also focus on ethical consumerism.
Aka is it right to financially support companies that sponsor certain regimes (Oracle), violate human rights (Apple), are hostile to their workers (AWS), promote surveillance capitalism (Google), are detrimental to the planet (Microsoft) etc, when there are ethical alternatives?
@Gina And how do we go about the elephant in the room, that the ethical alternatives are often not as good, lack features, fragmented and result in long-term financial loss compared to competitors using the non-ethical but efficient and established solutions?
We can't just ignore the reality on the ground.
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@Gina And how do we go about the elephant in the room, that the ethical alternatives are often not as good, lack features, fragmented and result in long-term financial loss compared to competitors using the non-ethical but efficient and established solutions?
We can't just ignore the reality on the ground.
@Chapz We also can't expect these alternatives to become as good (which a lot already are), if we don't financially support them.
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@Chapz We also can't expect these alternatives to become as good (which a lot already are), if we don't financially support them.
@Gina Yes, but it's a chicken and egg problem - they first need to be good to pay them, and they need payments to get good.
Not many individuals or businesses can realistically justify paying the same or more, for less.
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@Gina Yes, but it's a chicken and egg problem - they first need to be good to pay them, and they need payments to get good.
Not many individuals or businesses can realistically justify paying the same or more, for less.
@Chapz True, that's where I think government should take the lead. Choose ethical alternatives (again, many which are already as good as it's big tech counterparts), fund improvements and contribute to the open source ecosystem.
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