We strongly oppose the Unified Attestation initiative and call for app developers supporting privacy, security and freedom on mobile to avoid it.
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@bastian @MrGR We have many threads on this platform responding to attacks from these groups with links. If you want a particularly awful example, here's one of many cases where the founder and CEO of /e/ and Murena linked to harassment content targeting our founder. He has repeatedly spread fabricated stories and harassment content including from Kiwi Farms. In this case he linked a neo-nazi conspiracy site peddling the usual Kiwi Farms content.
@GrapheneOS @bastian Es handelt sich um Links, die offensichtlich gar nicht mehr online sind. Du teilst Links aus dem Webarchiv. Gael (Begründer von /e/os/) mag auch mitschuldig sein, aber ich glaube, ihr habt wirklich wichtigeres zu tun, als euch mit Gael zu streiten. Euer Streit interessiert niemand, der sich für Custom ROM interessiert! Kümmert euch um euer eigenes Projekt und treibt es voran. Ich wünsche euch viel Erfolg bei eurer Zusammenarbeit mit Motorola. DAS interessiert uns!
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@privacyfriendly Android Open Source Project and GrapheneOS are Linux. AOSP is open source and has a massive ecosystem built on the open source code. There are many stakeholders interested in continuing it. It would be a very messy situation if the original upstream stopped existing but it's entirely possible for development on it as an open source project to continue. It hopefully won't come to that. Ideally Android will be forcibly split from Google into a company friendlier to open source.
@GrapheneOS OK, I understand it a bit better now. Thanks for the explanation! Let's HOPE For The BEST!
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@GrapheneOS @volla These type of divisive debates weaken the community and are the biggest gift to Google & Big Tech. We don't need fighting among the community. On the contrary, let's put the effort in building a large and diverse free/libre ecosystem in mobile computing.
@meanmicio @volla We aren't part of a shared community and we're not on the same side. Volla, Murena and iodé trying to put themselves in the position of being the ones choosing which operating systems people are allowed to run on their devices is wrong. It's not a solution to the Play Integrity API but rather a new problem we'll be fighting against too. We aren't going to allow either Google or Volla to erode app compatibility with GrapheneOS without facing opposition and consequences.
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@bastian It's not clear why Volla and LineageOS are being brought up by @MrGR. Both Murena and iodé have both been heavily attacking GrapheneOS and our team with false claims, not Volla and LineageOS.
Unified Attestation is itself a form of attack on GrapheneOS and any other operating system that's not part of it. We posted a thread responding to that because it's going to have negative consequences for GrapheneOS users just as the Play Integrity API banning GrapheneOS already does today.
@GrapheneOS Volla und Iode habt ihr in diesem erwähnt. OK, dann lassen wir lineageOS raus. Aber weil murena ein fork von lineageOS, werdet ihr wohl genauso kritisch darüber denken, glaub ich mal.
Überlasst doch den Nutzern, sich für ihr System zu entscheiden und kümmert euch um euer eigenes Projekt, anstatt andere anzugreifen. Selbst wenn die euch angegriffen haben. Das macht viel mehr Sinn!
@bastian https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116200252194067124 -
@GrapheneOS Volla und Iode habt ihr in diesem erwähnt. OK, dann lassen wir lineageOS raus. Aber weil murena ein fork von lineageOS, werdet ihr wohl genauso kritisch darüber denken, glaub ich mal.
Überlasst doch den Nutzern, sich für ihr System zu entscheiden und kümmert euch um euer eigenes Projekt, anstatt andere anzugreifen. Selbst wenn die euch angegriffen haben. Das macht viel mehr Sinn!
@bastian https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116200252194067124@MrGR @bastian Murena's operating system is a fork of LineageOS which heavily reduces both privacy and security compared to LineageOS. It lags far further behind on updates and adds many invasive services into the OS unlike LineageOS. LineageOS has not misled people about what it provides with a massive amount of false marketing. Unlike Murena, they also haven't attacked GrapheneOS with relentless misinformation as an organization. Murena's leadership and official project accounts have done so.
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@MrGR @bastian Murena's operating system is a fork of LineageOS which heavily reduces both privacy and security compared to LineageOS. It lags far further behind on updates and adds many invasive services into the OS unlike LineageOS. LineageOS has not misled people about what it provides with a massive amount of false marketing. Unlike Murena, they also haven't attacked GrapheneOS with relentless misinformation as an organization. Murena's leadership and official project accounts have done so.
@MrGR @bastian In order for users to make an informed decision about what they want to use, they need to have accurate information available. Murena's false marketing stops people from making an informed decision. Someone misled into using their products due to believing it provides privacy and security it doesn't based on their false marketing wasn't given a chance to make an informed decision. Providing accurate information gives people a chance to choose what they want to use properly.
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@GrapheneOS Ich wundere mich, dass du so viel Zeit dafür verwendest, eure Angriffe gegenüber andere zu rechtfertigen. Ich denke mal, dass die Nutzer selbst entscheiden können, für welches System sie sich entscheiden. Eure Öffentlichkeitsarbeit gegen andere Mitbewerber bewirkt eher das Gegenteil von dem, was ihr beabsichtigt! Wenn mich GrapheneOS nicht überzeugen würde, würden eure aggressiven Posts mich von euch eher abstoßen. Du überschätzt die Bedeutung von Gael (eos) und IODE. @bastian
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@GrapheneOS Ich wundere mich, dass du so viel Zeit dafür verwendest, eure Angriffe gegenüber andere zu rechtfertigen. Ich denke mal, dass die Nutzer selbst entscheiden können, für welches System sie sich entscheiden. Eure Öffentlichkeitsarbeit gegen andere Mitbewerber bewirkt eher das Gegenteil von dem, was ihr beabsichtigt! Wenn mich GrapheneOS nicht überzeugen würde, würden eure aggressiven Posts mich von euch eher abstoßen. Du überschätzt die Bedeutung von Gael (eos) und IODE. @bastian
@GrapheneOS
Für euch wäre es wichtiger, dass ihr Partner findet, die Handys mit vorinstalliertem GrapheneOS anbietem und vermarkten, damit mehr Leute zu GrapheneOS wechseln können. Da sind Volla, Iode und Murena euch voraus. Ich verspreche mir von dem Motorola Handy mit GrapheneOS viel.
@bastian -
@MrGR @bastian In order for users to make an informed decision about what they want to use, they need to have accurate information available. Murena's false marketing stops people from making an informed decision. Someone misled into using their products due to believing it provides privacy and security it doesn't based on their false marketing wasn't given a chance to make an informed decision. Providing accurate information gives people a chance to choose what they want to use properly.
@MrGR @bastian There's a clear difference between publishing accurate information about products in response to false marketing from what they're doing. You're conflating their years of making inaccurate claims about GrapheneOS to mislead people into believing it isn't suitable for them with providing accurate information in response. It's not wrong to provide accurate information about products. It is wrong to lie about GrapheneOS and our team to promote their products. Those aren't the same.
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@GrapheneOS
Für euch wäre es wichtiger, dass ihr Partner findet, die Handys mit vorinstalliertem GrapheneOS anbietem und vermarkten, damit mehr Leute zu GrapheneOS wechseln können. Da sind Volla, Iode und Murena euch voraus. Ich verspreche mir von dem Motorola Handy mit GrapheneOS viel.
@bastian@MrGR @bastian There are already companies selling devices with GrapheneOS preinstalled. We don't want to have devices lacking important privacy and security patches/protections. Those products aren't in the same space as GrapheneOS in the first place. It's easy to churn out insecure devices and support for those. Working with a large OEM to build far more secure devices meeting our requirements is not something any of those companies have done or are doing. How exactly are they ahead of us?
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@GrapheneOS kind reminder that you supported from the beginning Goolag-backed vendor-lockin in pro of security.
This is just the final extension of it.
@echedellelr @GrapheneOS Me when I go on the internet and lie.
This never happened.
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@GrapheneOS @volla These type of divisive debates weaken the community and are the biggest gift to Google & Big Tech. We don't need fighting among the community. On the contrary, let's put the effort in building a large and diverse free/libre ecosystem in mobile computing.
@meanmicio @GrapheneOS @volla GrapheneOS has taken steps to create a more private and secure ecosystem. These other organizations have not. They are welcome to begin pushing towards that at any time, but until then, they are actively working against it. You phrase your message as positive, but you are telling victims of harassment and other various crimes to forgive their attackers, and work together with scammers and liars. These scammers do not work towards the same goal and they are making it worse, not better.
What you ask is incredibly disrespectful, and neglects the reality of the situation in favor of empty platitudes and the illusion of making progress.
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@GrapheneOS dann zeigt doch mal einen aktuellen Link zu so einem Beitrag. Bislang habe ich dazu nichts gesehen. Und bitte keinen Post von X. Ich bin nicht bei X. @bastian
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@GrapheneOS für euch ist doch vor allem entscheidend, dass euer eigenes Betriebssystem für europäische Banking Apps und Wallet Apps genutzt werden kann.
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@GrapheneOS @bastian Auch mir werft ihr jetzt vor zu lügen. Ich bin entsetzt über eure Art mit anderen zu kommunizieren. Ihr enttäuscht mich sehr.
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@GrapheneOS @MrGR yeah got it, sorry. If you wanna add something to clarify, feel free, i'd like knowing whats the reason for all that if you have the time for it. If not, it's all good. No need to reply here if you don't have the time for it.
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@GrapheneOS @bastian ich konnte auf dem Account von @gael keinen einzigen Post über GrapheneOS finden.
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@GrapheneOS @bastian Auch mir werft ihr jetzt vor zu lügen. Ich bin entsetzt über eure Art mit anderen zu kommunizieren. Ihr enttäuscht mich sehr.
@MrGR @GrapheneOS @bastian ja es ist beschämend als GrapheneOS Benutzer mitzuerleben, wie diese gegen Murena und Co stänkern, anstatt mal sich zusammen zu raufen, die streiteren beiseite zu legen und vllt gemeinsam was machen s. die Idee Bezüglich Unified Attestation (https://www.golem.de/news/banking-apps-und-custom-roms-grapheneos-wirft-volla-murena-und-iode-taeuschung-vor-2603-206314.html) .... Wenn man sich da zusammenschließen würde und es gemeinsam entwickeln würde, käme bestimmt was gutes raus mit dem alle zufrieden sind ..... Aber nein, GrapheneOS pisst lieber andere an, Hauptsache die arbeiten mit Motorola zusammen (was meiner Meinung nach eine Fehlentscheidung war)
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We strongly oppose the Unified Attestation initiative and call for app developers supporting privacy, security and freedom on mobile to avoid it. Companies selling phones should not be deciding which operating systems people are allowed to use for apps.
@GrapheneOS I don't want attestation to begin with. Software should not care what hardware it's running on and hardware should not care what software it's running. Bootloader locking should be at the whim of the device's owner not the companies that made it, and it should be optional with the option to enroll your own keys if you wish to use it. Moving ownership from Google to another company doesn't solve the inherent problem here. I own my device, not the manufacturer.
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Having a European version of the Play Integrity which permits people to use insecure products from specific European companies participating in it while disallowing using arbitrary hardware or software is the opposite of a solution. It's more of the same anti-competitive garbage.
@GrapheneOS Totally,
I don't wanna be locked-in
