A court in Munich declared that Google is liable for their "AI summaries" and all its hallucinations.
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Google's defence needs to be amplified by anyone talking to politicians about 'AI' regulation:
Google is explicitly saying in their legal filing that the outputs from their LLM should not be trusted and that users should know that.
That's one hell of an admission. Imagine saying that about any other category of product.
Q-tips says it. "don't clean your ears". What do 90% of Q-tips buyers do? Clean their ears.
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J jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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Google's defence needs to be amplified by anyone talking to politicians about 'AI' regulation:
Google is explicitly saying in their legal filing that the outputs from their LLM should not be trusted and that users should know that.
That's one hell of an admission. Imagine saying that about any other category of product.
@david_chisnall @tante I remember years ago being on the Tube in London, and the it stopped, and the recommendation was "Please use other means to get to your destination". Which I felt was rather like saying "We cannot do our job, please find someone who can do our job of getting you there"
It feels a little like this.
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It's also not good. It turns out that existing ML models trained on x-ray data overfit on specific measurement errors for individual x-ray machines and produce surprisingly poor results when you try to use them on a different x-ray machine, of the same model in the same hospital, let alone a different model.
There was a paper published near the start of the year debunking a load of the claims about ML in radiology.
But that doesn't stop it being the go-to example for boosters.
@david_chisnall Could you, please, link the paper?
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It's also not good. It turns out that existing ML models trained on x-ray data overfit on specific measurement errors for individual x-ray machines and produce surprisingly poor results when you try to use them on a different x-ray machine, of the same model in the same hospital, let alone a different model.
There was a paper published near the start of the year debunking a load of the claims about ML in radiology.
But that doesn't stop it being the go-to example for boosters.
I base my perspective on review articles published to journals. This is one of them with an image capture of the review articles conclusion. This one of many such published papers.
Review
Redefining Radiology: A Review of Artificial Intelligence
Integration in Medical Imaging -
@tante Good article. Too bad that the fall down at the end: '... the fallout could hit not just Google but every AI provider whose systems paraphrase content from the web.'
The whole point is that ai(llm) is not paraphrasing content from the web. It is making shit up.
@MeneerDeBruin @tante yes, and i think this is the point missed by many, that an LLM is paraphrazing or summarizing or inferring... including making stuff up, because it is designed to do so: it has a "sycophancy bias" (yes, a real thing) and "unanchors" itself from references so it can string together snippets in order to please users so they continue to engage with it. It does not speak truth, or curate, when it summarizes.
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Indeed no other industry or product could get away with that ... - let us just hope that this court's view is upheld through future instances
@sebastian @david_chisnall @tante
I think the odds of that are zero, I'm assuming that Google will find someone to bribe before long.
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@lymphomation @david_chisnall @tante
AI abilities are "jagged" because AI is an umbrella term for a bunch of disparate technologies and the AI used for radiology is almost entirely unrelated to the AI at issue here@sabik @lymphomation @david_chisnall @tante
"But Science!" is just the new talking point for AI astroturf.
Notice how all the boosters started saying that and "jagged" at the same time?
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@tante ”A German court has ruled that Google is directly liable for what its AI search overviews say. Previous case law shielding search engine operators from liability doesn't apply to AI overviews.”
This is the correct action to take. You are operating a technology that produces this information. You are not connecting people to somebody else’s voice.
@gimulnautti @tante This should be cemented on the EU level. It might get Google thinking about spreading lies.
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Q-tips says it. "don't clean your ears". What do 90% of Q-tips buyers do? Clean their ears.
@nosrednayduj @david_chisnall @tante I can tell I haven't had enough caffeine yet, because now my brain is going down the rabbit hole of "we have to clean our ears with Q-tips because getting it done safely at the doctor is not financially accessible to most Americans."
But Europeans probably do it too, and I know Asian countries have those little ear spoons which presumably have similar risks of eardrum puncture.
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Hallucinations aren't Google's fault, and they can't just fix them. It's a property of AI. So just don't use it for topics you don't understand. And frankly, I don't know anyone who still uses Google. Even my mom uses DuckDuckGo.
@PerryNoID
If Google knowingly uses substandard or faulty tools that produce bad outcomes, those bad outcomes are Google‘s responsibility.If I build and operate a soda vending machine that sometimes dispenses antifreeze in Fanta bottles, that’s on me too after all.
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@sabik @lymphomation @david_chisnall @tante
"But Science!" is just the new talking point for AI astroturf.
Notice how all the boosters started saying that and "jagged" at the same time?
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@theeclecticdyslexic @tante they made/own/run the thing, so why not? They've put the summaries front and centre. They integrated it when there was absolutely no need. The LLM didn't have to be doing any of those things.
@noodlemaz @tante Oh, for sure. I just never would have thought of it, because I was so preoccupied with the legal questions of theft, and how anything it says is almost always in the training data somewhere (or multiple somewheres).
I do think this ruling is a consequence of their efforts to convince people it is "intelligent". People wouldn't consider it something to listen to otherwise. It would just be an inconvenience, as it is for people who know better.
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Google's defence needs to be amplified by anyone talking to politicians about 'AI' regulation:
Google is explicitly saying in their legal filing that the outputs from their LLM should not be trusted and that users should know that.
That's one hell of an admission. Imagine saying that about any other category of product.
@david_chisnall @tante I would love for someone to hold them to actually proving that statement.
Do people?
Does the general public, in fact, treat LLM output as just statistically likely text, not real information?
All of their advertisement sure seems to be designed to ensure people *don’t*, and instead put all their trust in this machine garbage.
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@tante as far as I know, this is sort of incorrect, cause this ruling is just a local court
@failedLyndonLaRouchite @tante local court, but international scope.
Lovely Liability .. love it
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A court in Munich declared that Google is liable for their "AI summaries" and all its hallucinations. This is an important step to bring "AI" slop in line with all other products on the market: "AI" products are basically the only ones where a provider can just deliver unchecked garbage and put all the liability on the consumer. I hope to see aggressive change here.
@tante the biggest german news show always starts with 'angaben ohne gewehr'.
google can do the same and legally just say: its information without guarantees or certainties. -
Google's defence needs to be amplified by anyone talking to politicians about 'AI' regulation:
Google is explicitly saying in their legal filing that the outputs from their LLM should not be trusted and that users should know that.
That's one hell of an admission. Imagine saying that about any other category of product.
@david_chisnall @tante politicians?
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@nosrednayduj @david_chisnall @tante I can tell I haven't had enough caffeine yet, because now my brain is going down the rabbit hole of "we have to clean our ears with Q-tips because getting it done safely at the doctor is not financially accessible to most Americans."
But Europeans probably do it too, and I know Asian countries have those little ear spoons which presumably have similar risks of eardrum puncture.
@meredith @nosrednayduj @david_chisnall @tante But East Asian earwax is different from European and African earwax, so the tools and techniques are different. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/did-you-know-general-science/your-earwax-and-sweat-have-something-smelly-common
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@david_chisnall @tante I remember years ago being on the Tube in London, and the it stopped, and the recommendation was "Please use other means to get to your destination". Which I felt was rather like saying "We cannot do our job, please find someone who can do our job of getting you there"
It feels a little like this.
@SteveClough @david_chisnall @tante I was once in Tokyo when there was a stoppage on a metro line and they were handling out tickets for other lines and apologizing profusely. And in both Japan and Canada, saying "I'm sorry" is not an admission of liability.
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Google's defence needs to be amplified by anyone talking to politicians about 'AI' regulation:
Google is explicitly saying in their legal filing that the outputs from their LLM should not be trusted and that users should know that.
That's one hell of an admission. Imagine saying that about any other category of product.
@david_chisnall
It’s fascinating what truths people suddenly find within themselves when lying has negative consequences.
