Heavens help me, I'm asking for linux distribution advice on fedi.
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@peter_mcmahan come to elementary OS, it's a queer friendly, queer founded Linux distro that really don't support the use of AI.
@serigala_tropis @peter_mcmahan and it is also quite a pleasure to use.
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@peter_mcmahan Honestly, I can't answer any of your questions
but FWIW I do remember that doing my own most recent, failed attempt at switching over to Linux I decided to go with Zorin specifically because my other prime candidate, Fedora, was too AI friendly...@jwcph @peter_mcmahan
#ZorinOS has no AI (for now at least).. but I didn't notice any in Ubuntu either so now I'm worried there's just stuff happening in the background? -
Heavens help me, I'm asking for linux distribution advice on fedi. 🫣
It's becoming increasingly clear that I'll need to jump ship from Ubuntu very soon. I've been using linux as my only os for several years now, and I originally chose Ubuntu because I wanted web searches for "<error message> <distro name>" to generally just give me an answer. But every release has made things harder (like avoiding snap) and canonical seems dead set on driving their os into the GenAI void. So I need recommendations!
Is there a distro out there that has a strong anti-AI (or at least AI critical) stance that will mostly just work for laptops (reliable sleep on lid shut is a must)? With a strong community and good governance structure? Maybe with good zfs support? And rolling releases and up to date packages available? I've looked into basic Debian and Chimera, but I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on those and other options.
(Boosts welcome)
Depends what else you're against!
Don't like systemd? MX Linux -- Debian based, light, lots of good tools.
Don't mind systemd, and doing a lot of your own manual work? Debian.
Want rolling-release? openSUSE Tumbleweed. Or, for greater stability, openSUSE Slowroll. SUSE is anti-ZFS though. Defaults to Btrfs. I *do not like* Btrfs. (Disclaimer: I worked for SUSE for 4 years.)
Want slim and lightweight & feels like Linux used to do: tiny and fast? Alpine.
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Depends what else you're against!
Don't like systemd? MX Linux -- Debian based, light, lots of good tools.
Don't mind systemd, and doing a lot of your own manual work? Debian.
Want rolling-release? openSUSE Tumbleweed. Or, for greater stability, openSUSE Slowroll. SUSE is anti-ZFS though. Defaults to Btrfs. I *do not like* Btrfs. (Disclaimer: I worked for SUSE for 4 years.)
Want slim and lightweight & feels like Linux used to do: tiny and fast? Alpine.
@lproven @peter_mcmahan +1 for openSuse. Ive used it for over 10 years on tumbleweed, but if you want a slower update cycle, go with slow roll.
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Heavens help me, I'm asking for linux distribution advice on fedi. 🫣
It's becoming increasingly clear that I'll need to jump ship from Ubuntu very soon. I've been using linux as my only os for several years now, and I originally chose Ubuntu because I wanted web searches for "<error message> <distro name>" to generally just give me an answer. But every release has made things harder (like avoiding snap) and canonical seems dead set on driving their os into the GenAI void. So I need recommendations!
Is there a distro out there that has a strong anti-AI (or at least AI critical) stance that will mostly just work for laptops (reliable sleep on lid shut is a must)? With a strong community and good governance structure? Maybe with good zfs support? And rolling releases and up to date packages available? I've looked into basic Debian and Chimera, but I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on those and other options.
(Boosts welcome)
@peter_mcmahan I moved away from Ubuntu several years ago. I was on Elementary for a while, which is based on Ubuntu but seems to be a bit friendlier and has come out against AI. Unfortunately, they followed Ubuntu's lead in making it almost impossible to install deb packages (which is a policy that makes no sense to me) and my accounting app is only available as a Debian package. I'm now on LMDE (the 'pure' Debian version of Mint) and very happy with it.
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@peter_mcmahan I moved from Ubuntu to Debian Stable several years ago, and haven’t regretted it.
Essentially, Debian seems to have taken inspiration from Ubuntu to become a bit friendlier, but thankfully they haven’t imitated the annoying bits.
@slothrop @peter_mcmahan Yeah I left Ubuntu for Debian circa 2010 and haven't looked back. I run it on my work laptop, the family laptop, and all of my workstations and servers.
I haven't used ZFS but it runs Ceph just fine.
If you are using it on a *recent* laptop you may need to update to the backport kernel since the shipping one might not have all of the drivers needed for things like sleep to work well, but that's not a big deal.
The mainline packages are not the most recent but realistically 95% of software doesn't need to be bleeding edge anyway and you can install backports or build from source for the 1-2 packages you might want something really new for.
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Heavens help me, I'm asking for linux distribution advice on fedi. 🫣
It's becoming increasingly clear that I'll need to jump ship from Ubuntu very soon. I've been using linux as my only os for several years now, and I originally chose Ubuntu because I wanted web searches for "<error message> <distro name>" to generally just give me an answer. But every release has made things harder (like avoiding snap) and canonical seems dead set on driving their os into the GenAI void. So I need recommendations!
Is there a distro out there that has a strong anti-AI (or at least AI critical) stance that will mostly just work for laptops (reliable sleep on lid shut is a must)? With a strong community and good governance structure? Maybe with good zfs support? And rolling releases and up to date packages available? I've looked into basic Debian and Chimera, but I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on those and other options.
(Boosts welcome)
@peter_mcmahan@mas.to if you sti want $error $distro searches to work well Linux Mint will likely be a good bet, since at that point it's just popularity. It's still Ubuntu based, so will likely be somewhat familiar, though not the same.
I've also helped someone install MX Linux, and CachyOS, and they seem to work well. Cachy is rolling, seems to have a decent community, and I haven't noticed any issues with lid shutting. No clue on zfs though, didn't try that or look for it -
Heavens help me, I'm asking for linux distribution advice on fedi. 🫣
It's becoming increasingly clear that I'll need to jump ship from Ubuntu very soon. I've been using linux as my only os for several years now, and I originally chose Ubuntu because I wanted web searches for "<error message> <distro name>" to generally just give me an answer. But every release has made things harder (like avoiding snap) and canonical seems dead set on driving their os into the GenAI void. So I need recommendations!
Is there a distro out there that has a strong anti-AI (or at least AI critical) stance that will mostly just work for laptops (reliable sleep on lid shut is a must)? With a strong community and good governance structure? Maybe with good zfs support? And rolling releases and up to date packages available? I've looked into basic Debian and Chimera, but I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on those and other options.
(Boosts welcome)
@peter_mcmahan
Nobody seems to be mentioning Mint, which is another Debian derivative.
Does this mean Mint is regarded as too AI-friendly? I hope not.I agree with the observation expressed by many that Debian/Gnome has the least "culture shock" for someone coming from Ubuntu. I have been running Debian for several years, and so have the family members. Mint as well, albeit before the AI-hype took off.
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Heavens help me, I'm asking for linux distribution advice on fedi. 🫣
It's becoming increasingly clear that I'll need to jump ship from Ubuntu very soon. I've been using linux as my only os for several years now, and I originally chose Ubuntu because I wanted web searches for "<error message> <distro name>" to generally just give me an answer. But every release has made things harder (like avoiding snap) and canonical seems dead set on driving their os into the GenAI void. So I need recommendations!
Is there a distro out there that has a strong anti-AI (or at least AI critical) stance that will mostly just work for laptops (reliable sleep on lid shut is a must)? With a strong community and good governance structure? Maybe with good zfs support? And rolling releases and up to date packages available? I've looked into basic Debian and Chimera, but I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on those and other options.
(Boosts welcome)
@peter_mcmahan
If you use Ubuntu just move upstream to Debian -
@peter_mcmahan
If you use Ubuntu just move upstream to Debian@peter_mcmahan
The only distro I've seen (I haven't researched it) that has taken a hard anti-AI stance is Gentoo, but that's a hard one to recommend. -
Heavens help me, I'm asking for linux distribution advice on fedi. 🫣
It's becoming increasingly clear that I'll need to jump ship from Ubuntu very soon. I've been using linux as my only os for several years now, and I originally chose Ubuntu because I wanted web searches for "<error message> <distro name>" to generally just give me an answer. But every release has made things harder (like avoiding snap) and canonical seems dead set on driving their os into the GenAI void. So I need recommendations!
Is there a distro out there that has a strong anti-AI (or at least AI critical) stance that will mostly just work for laptops (reliable sleep on lid shut is a must)? With a strong community and good governance structure? Maybe with good zfs support? And rolling releases and up to date packages available? I've looked into basic Debian and Chimera, but I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on those and other options.
(Boosts welcome)
@peter_mcmahan@mas.to it really makes it so much more challenging to make a good suggestion if ZFS is a requirement/preference (which, to be clear, I'm a big proponent of!). It's a bit of a sad state of affairs in the whole Linux distro world that there isn't really a single well regarded option that comes with root-on-zfs support out of the box — and that doesn't come with snaps and other things being force-fed into you.
The only non-Ubuntu option I can think of that offers root-on-ZFS out of the box is CachyOS (or indeed Arch), but I'd honestly not ever want the recommend either if you're looking for an "it just works" type setup. If only there was a Debian spin that was just straight-up pure Debian, but with ZFS support out of the box.
I've personally switched to Debian earlier this year, coming from Fedora Silverblue, as it felt the closest to what I wanted from my OS (boring & stable), just sadly lacking root-on-ZFS.
If you're using a desktop and/or laptop with multiple SSDs, not having root-on-ZFS might not be the end of the world, as you can install the dkms module and, for example, use a secondary (+tertiary for redundancy) SSD to store your/homepartition?
But yeah, it's a bit of a sad state of affairs. ZFS is a hard one to lose out on once you're used to it's many benefits.
If only FreeBSD was further ahead in terms of hardware compatibility...
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What about the ones in this list? https://noai.starlightnet.work/ @peter_mcmahan
@WeirdWriter
ChimeraOS is in that list. Elementary OS might be a good contender as well.Otherwise, Debian has, as @@davidgerard mentioned, not been poisoned by slop yet, and works well on generic Intel laptop hardware.
@peter_mcmahan -
Heavens help me, I'm asking for linux distribution advice on fedi. 🫣
It's becoming increasingly clear that I'll need to jump ship from Ubuntu very soon. I've been using linux as my only os for several years now, and I originally chose Ubuntu because I wanted web searches for "<error message> <distro name>" to generally just give me an answer. But every release has made things harder (like avoiding snap) and canonical seems dead set on driving their os into the GenAI void. So I need recommendations!
Is there a distro out there that has a strong anti-AI (or at least AI critical) stance that will mostly just work for laptops (reliable sleep on lid shut is a must)? With a strong community and good governance structure? Maybe with good zfs support? And rolling releases and up to date packages available? I've looked into basic Debian and Chimera, but I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on those and other options.
(Boosts welcome)
@peter_mcmahan Unless you're heavily into the Ubuntu customisations, I find a vanilla Debian install with the default Gnome desktop feels pretty much like Ubuntu-with-different-colours.
I think the only thing I remember tweaking was to add a keyboard shortcut (CTRL-ALT-T) for opening a terminal.
(Having said that I've recently just switched back to Ubuntu 🫣)
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@jwcph @peter_mcmahan
#ZorinOS has no AI (for now at least).. but I didn't notice any in Ubuntu either so now I'm worried there's just stuff happening in the background?@elduvelle @peter_mcmahan Yeah, it would be really great if developers would take an explicit stance on this topic - AI is fomenting enough distrust without everybody also having to default to assuming any tech will probably try to smuggle it in through the back door at some point...
