“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
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and again I’ll point out how fucking quick this shit is happening
torvalds posts a defense of AI slop in the kernel with a right-wing conspiracy theory as the reason
a bunch of other open source projects just go “well the kernel says it’s ok so we’re doing slop now”
barely a couple of weeks later the kernel is changing its release cadence and quality standards entirely and the man in charge is shrugging and literally going “what can you do”
you can cut the crap, asshole. it’s your literal job to cut the crap.
@zzt Linus is the driver. The Linux Foundation is the vehicle. It may be difficult to persuade someone of something when their income depends on believing the opposite.
Sure, Linus is a flawed, acerbic individual. But I think there's more going on than that. -
only a fool would use windows for anything, I said, my kernel quickly turning into a set of security vulnerabilities and crash bugs due to guys who refuse to look at code at all anymore, accept user feedback ever, or believe anyone who raises any kind of issue in any context
everything we know about LLMs through personal experience and research says that using them massively decreases code quality and introduces vulnerabilities. even 1password, a company that’s all-in on slop, is at the point where they’re publicizing their findings that LLMs either cause or fail to fix vulnerabilities the majority of the time.
the only “evidence” we have that LLMs do anything good is from men in power like Linus asserting that it’s the case and fake research and benchmarks designed to be gamed released by the AI companies
the only people claiming LLMs increase code quality are the people profiting off of them
isn’t that weird?
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@zzt
I think Xenia the fox should've been more OS-agnostic.
[maybe to the extent of flaunting a hacked-up version of Windows where all the default programs are replaced with FOSS stuff]@moses_izumi @zzt in the original manga, Xenia ran Microsoft Xenix, but it was changed to Linux in translation
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everything we know about LLMs through personal experience and research says that using them massively decreases code quality and introduces vulnerabilities. even 1password, a company that’s all-in on slop, is at the point where they’re publicizing their findings that LLMs either cause or fail to fix vulnerabilities the majority of the time.
the only “evidence” we have that LLMs do anything good is from men in power like Linus asserting that it’s the case and fake research and benchmarks designed to be gamed released by the AI companies
the only people claiming LLMs increase code quality are the people profiting off of them
isn’t that weird?
and you know what? almost all of the projects claiming LLMs benefited them are cookie cutter web and app crap in typescript or some other high level language
the only instances I’ve seen of kernel code in C being produced by an LLM have all been broken, plagarized slop. like shit, look at the utter failure of a C compiler that’s… abandoned now. look at the utter failure of a web browser that’s… also abandoned. the slop “reimplementation” of Macintosh System 7 that doesn’t work. the Meshtastic OS from the guy who tried to steal the Meshtastic copyright that… also doesn’t work
so uh where does this assertion that these things are any good at C come from? every time this has been tried it failed badly.
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
@zzt This is bad, but it's being misrepresented. The headline alone makes it read like there's a bunch of codeslop being accepted, while the actual story is that maintainers are trusting reviewslop to merge things more quickly than they would if they were actually reviewing them.
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and you know what? almost all of the projects claiming LLMs benefited them are cookie cutter web and app crap in typescript or some other high level language
the only instances I’ve seen of kernel code in C being produced by an LLM have all been broken, plagarized slop. like shit, look at the utter failure of a C compiler that’s… abandoned now. look at the utter failure of a web browser that’s… also abandoned. the slop “reimplementation” of Macintosh System 7 that doesn’t work. the Meshtastic OS from the guy who tried to steal the Meshtastic copyright that… also doesn’t work
so uh where does this assertion that these things are any good at C come from? every time this has been tried it failed badly.
oh wow, the machine can plagiarize servo into a web browser that’s broken and strictly worse than servo!
oh wow, the machine can plagiarize GCC and a bunch of undergrad compiler projects into… a C compiler so unoptimized and broken it probably set a record for how slow its output ran, which also didn’t run any of the normal sanity checks on its input
so what exactly are the LLMs running on the Linux kernel going to plagiarize from?
we know the answer of course, there’s not a lot of kernels they can pull from
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
@zzt Serious question: how hard is it to fork the kernel before it's too slopified to save?
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anyway can’t wait for Linux slop edition
I’m sure linus will claim all the bugs are because we’re holding it wrong
@zzt he's living long enough for the kernel to change from monument to your hubris (laudatory) to monument to your hubris (derogatory)
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oh wow, the machine can plagiarize servo into a web browser that’s broken and strictly worse than servo!
oh wow, the machine can plagiarize GCC and a bunch of undergrad compiler projects into… a C compiler so unoptimized and broken it probably set a record for how slow its output ran, which also didn’t run any of the normal sanity checks on its input
so what exactly are the LLMs running on the Linux kernel going to plagiarize from?
we know the answer of course, there’s not a lot of kernels they can pull from
LLMs are very good at filing the serial numbers off of things for plagiarism purposes, but expect the parts of Linux with any structure at all to look a lot like bits of BSD, bits of AT&T Unix, bits of Windows, and bits of XNU
and other than the obvious wrongness of this… is that really the best we can do? just ditch linux as a place where we invent stuff and innovate and come up with a legitimately better thing than what came before? cause I can tell you through hard experience that trying to write original code against an LLM-generated API in a codebase turned to jelly by LLM-driven decisions and men mindlessly going LGTM is an exercise in futility and frustration
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@zzt I'm starting to see more of the benefit of microkernels as time goes on.
@gooba42 @zzt Microkernels got a bad reputation by the microkernel folks doing them backwards. Putting sketchy hardware io stuff that actually needs to be isolated into the real core kernel but syscalls into unusably slow and misbehaving RPC Rube Goldberg machines.
A good microkernel is at its core the resource & state management (memory, scheduling entities, file handles, etc.) needed to implement POSIX with hardware drivers and filesystems in isolated userspace tasks.
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
@zzt the man who famously described himself as woke? who kidnapped linus
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LLMs are very good at filing the serial numbers off of things for plagiarism purposes, but expect the parts of Linux with any structure at all to look a lot like bits of BSD, bits of AT&T Unix, bits of Windows, and bits of XNU
and other than the obvious wrongness of this… is that really the best we can do? just ditch linux as a place where we invent stuff and innovate and come up with a legitimately better thing than what came before? cause I can tell you through hard experience that trying to write original code against an LLM-generated API in a codebase turned to jelly by LLM-driven decisions and men mindlessly going LGTM is an exercise in futility and frustration
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@zzt Serious question: how hard is it to fork the kernel before it's too slopified to save?
@galacticstone it’s the linux kernel, forking it would be a gargantuan task and require the coordinated support of a bunch of downstreams and a bunch of hardware vendors who currently profit off of Linux adopting LLMs because they sell the hardware that powers LLMs
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@moses_izumi @zzt okay, i'm gonna install haiku on my firstgen eeepeecee then. it mostly sits doing nothing.
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@zzt he's living long enough for the kernel to change from monument to your hubris (laudatory) to monument to your hubris (derogatory)
IMHO the right point to fork it is somewhere 6.18-ish.
6.12 to 6.14 saw some really great improvements to the scheduler that did benefit latency sensitive, compute heavy applications (realtime simulation, visualization, games). Also new locking mechanism introduced that vastly simplifies WINE and also can be beneficial for native applications.
But the 7.x series onward is tainted.
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@zzt This is bad, but it's being misrepresented. The headline alone makes it read like there's a bunch of codeslop being accepted, while the actual story is that maintainers are trusting reviewslop to merge things more quickly than they would if they were actually reviewing them.
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
@zzt man i'm just tired.
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nobody requested this, nobody wants gigantic kernel updates with very low quality code in them. the kernel of all things needs a slower pace and more care, because it’s the fucking kernel.
so who do you imagine is holding torvalds’ feet to the fire on this? maybe it’s the LLM companies pouring fucktons of money into the Linux foundation? nah can’t be. must be all the downstream projects that are going to get fucked over by this, they surely want the worst possible version of Linux
@zzt reading this sure brings to mind many similar complaints I have about the rise of systemd
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@galacticstone it’s the linux kernel, forking it would be a gargantuan task and require the coordinated support of a bunch of downstreams and a bunch of hardware vendors who currently profit off of Linux adopting LLMs because they sell the hardware that powers LLMs
@zzt So, if I am reading you correctly, it's possible but would be a major effort requiring a team and resources. A couple of hardcore coders couldn't do this on their own.
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@zzt So, if I am reading you correctly, it's possible but would be a major effort requiring a team and resources. A couple of hardcore coders couldn't do this on their own.
@zzt Further thoughts : revert the kernel back to a date before slop was merged. Then rebuild everything after that. Ouch. How far back does the slop already go?
