Why Spain and Portugal have done so well compared to other European countries
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I live in a very working class neighbourhood, and it kind of amazed me just how diverse, welcoming and integrated it is. Not through some dictate from above, but just a real active outreaching that I notice pretty much every day.
I'm not saying I don't see the occasional Vox flag, or hear the occasional anti-Islamic slur - I do. But it is both rare and very often vociferously opposed by other Spanish bystanders.
But - and this is just my own experience, in my neighbourhood. I don't know if it is reflective of a larger reality.
I'm just really grateful to be living where I do.
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@modulux Perhaps it is because for such a long time the economy in Andalucia was so bad, with such high unemployment, and it has improved so much - along with the influx of migrants. So while the rhetoric blaming migrants for unemployment sounds good - we're kind of living proof here that the opposite is true?
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What blows my mind most is just how clear it is that migrants have been a net positive factor in Spain. Their presence has stimulated the economy to such an extent that it has been instrumental in a consistently falling unemployment rate andgrowth in the average household income.
@Remittancegirl Where I live(Sweden countryside) the exact opposite is happening, the influx of migrants were the only thing keeping my region over water but a few years ago the government closed the border and now the local economy is crashing, the population is falling, businesses are going bankrupt left and right. It's a doom cycle.
The far right narrative feeds itself, blame immigrants, abolish immigration - shit gets worse, blame immigrants harder - repeat. Then attack social safety nets on account of them being too expensive with so few people, shit gets worse. The so called labour parties play right into it, austerity, hatred, shit gets worse. Always worse.
God I'm depressed. President Xi, my people yearn for freedom.
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What blows my mind most is just how clear it is that migrants have been a net positive factor in Spain. Their presence has stimulated the economy to such an extent that it has been instrumental in a consistently falling unemployment rate andgrowth in the average household income.
@Remittancegirl I found it incredible that during the crisis Spain was not willing to pay their unemployed.
So they emigrated.
In their thousands.
And the people who left were mainly young single people. These people are now married with families, established in their adopted communities and now Spain is expanding very few will return to fill the vacant posts. So yes, it’s absolutely vital to bring people in.Immigration always brings prosperity.
Immigration is what made the USA. -
@modulux I think that the myth of the evil outsider is such an old and strong one, it takes a lot to overcome it.
I do wonder if one of the very powerful factors down here is that slowly, after Franco's death, people became more aware and interested in the history of Moorish Andalucia and the enduring cultural influence of that time, and it allowed for a kind of shared bond?
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@Remittancegirl Where I live(Sweden countryside) the exact opposite is happening, the influx of migrants were the only thing keeping my region over water but a few years ago the government closed the border and now the local economy is crashing, the population is falling, businesses are going bankrupt left and right. It's a doom cycle.
The far right narrative feeds itself, blame immigrants, abolish immigration - shit gets worse, blame immigrants harder - repeat. Then attack social safety nets on account of them being too expensive with so few people, shit gets worse. The so called labour parties play right into it, austerity, hatred, shit gets worse. Always worse.
God I'm depressed. President Xi, my people yearn for freedom.
@bangskij I'm very sorry. I do recognise how lucky I am to have landed in a place where that narrative is getting real pushback.
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@modulux I think that the myth of the evil outsider is such an old and strong one, it takes a lot to overcome it.
I do wonder if one of the very powerful factors down here is that slowly, after Franco's death, people became more aware and interested in the history of Moorish Andalucia and the enduring cultural influence of that time, and it allowed for a kind of shared bond?
@modulux I notice in my neighbourhood that people (not all, of course, but many) really emphasise their shared commonalities. It's Ramadan now, and I would say that at least half of the Spanish people who come into my local fruit and veg shop, run by a Moroccan couple, wish them feliz Ramadan, ask about their children. Chat about food.
People are actively interested in each other's lives.
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@Remittancegirl Where I live(Sweden countryside) the exact opposite is happening, the influx of migrants were the only thing keeping my region over water but a few years ago the government closed the border and now the local economy is crashing, the population is falling, businesses are going bankrupt left and right. It's a doom cycle.
The far right narrative feeds itself, blame immigrants, abolish immigration - shit gets worse, blame immigrants harder - repeat. Then attack social safety nets on account of them being too expensive with so few people, shit gets worse. The so called labour parties play right into it, austerity, hatred, shit gets worse. Always worse.
God I'm depressed. President Xi, my people yearn for freedom.
@bangskij @Remittancegirl not much better in Stockholm either although the mechanics are different. Cuts in social/welfare spendings hit immigrants disproportionately harder because they have no lobby, accelerating the adverse effects on society and as such fueling the growth of ”parallel” societies after treating people like second or third class. Which then fuels further hatred and prosecution/discrimination. A well calculated vicious circle.
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@modulux I notice in my neighbourhood that people (not all, of course, but many) really emphasise their shared commonalities. It's Ramadan now, and I would say that at least half of the Spanish people who come into my local fruit and veg shop, run by a Moroccan couple, wish them feliz Ramadan, ask about their children. Chat about food.
People are actively interested in each other's lives.
@Remittancegirl I do hope you're right. I'd like to think that sort of contact, normal, daily things, can get people to relax. It's hard to be scared of someone buying fruit or planning a meal or whatever.
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@Remittancegirl Where I live(Sweden countryside) the exact opposite is happening, the influx of migrants were the only thing keeping my region over water but a few years ago the government closed the border and now the local economy is crashing, the population is falling, businesses are going bankrupt left and right. It's a doom cycle.
The far right narrative feeds itself, blame immigrants, abolish immigration - shit gets worse, blame immigrants harder - repeat. Then attack social safety nets on account of them being too expensive with so few people, shit gets worse. The so called labour parties play right into it, austerity, hatred, shit gets worse. Always worse.
God I'm depressed. President Xi, my people yearn for freedom.
@bangskij @Remittancegirl We see the exact same dynamic in Denmark. Immigrants are the ones who keep the small rural towns alive while our politicians are screaming bloody murder about it.
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