If you don't trust AI and AI's accuracy, then why would you trust an AI "AI-detector" 🤨

[dalias@hachyderm.io]

@aud @Em0nM4stodon Just like how the exact same paragraph can be "plagiarism" or "not plagiarism" depending on whether the person who wrote it had any knowledge of someone else having written the exact same words. It's all a matter of provenance not text contents.

[falken@social.falkensweb.com]

@aud @Em0nM4stodon see also "halting problem".
Feed tweaked AI slop to AI slop detector till it fails to detect as slop.

#llm

[aud@fire.asta.lgbt]

@jafra@sueden.social @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange

you can measure that they fit and that the negative fits to the ruler.

sure... but that doesn't tell you whether your ruler is accurate. A theoretical "AI detector" that works this way would be trying to determine if two samples come from the same distribution or two different distributions.

My analogy wasn't perfect and was just focused on one of the "quick" flaws of the approach (a biased instrument can't tell whether its biased), but the more fundamental problem (to rephrase what @dalias@hachyderm.io pointed out) is that the distribution inside the LLM is sampled from human created text...

... and so determining that a piece of text "matches" what an LLM might output doesn't tell you whether it was generated by a human or an LLM. It just tells you, at best, whether it could be generated or otherwise found within the internal LLM distribution, and considering they've hoovered up every piece of text they've been able to get their hands on... I mean, I think there's plenty of examples of stuff like "I fed Moby Dick in and it says AI generated". The reason em dashes are outputted are because, well, humans like em dashes... etc etc.

It's just a very bad and wrong approach and is just the tech bros selling the idea of a cure for an unnecessary problem they created.

Even if they use a non LLM approach the whole idea of automated "AI detection" is just an arms race and is likely to be useless before it can even get out the door.

[simplicator@federate.social]

@Em0nM4stodon Guess it doesn’t take one to know one… when the “one” in question can’t actually “know” anything #AI

[sidalsolgun@infosec.exchange]

@Em0nM4stodon my teacher in Canada told me "you're using AI" just because my homework was great. (It wasn't that good imo)

I defended myself but I still wonder what makes him think that, like AI detector or just a guess?

I wouldn't say my homework was great anyways, I did it with my shitty English.

The same thing is happening to other students too like they're doing the homework by themselves but the AI detector says "it's AI".

What a year to live in...

Edit: And it's so fuckin rude and disgusting to say "you're using AI" in the middle of the class. Jfc...

[retreival9096@hachyderm.io]

@sidalsolgun @Em0nM4stodon

If someone said that to my child, I'd ask if the "AI detector" was an LLM -- because this sounds like the teacher accusing the kid of doing exactly what the teacher is doing.

[lhbm@mastodon.social]

@falken @aud @Em0nM4stodon that's exactly what some school kids do

[reformed_content_marketer@mastodon.social]

@Em0nM4stodon There have been plenty of times when an AI "AI-detector" claimed my completely human-written content was partially AI-generated. These tools are so stupid, yet so many people trust them.

I wish there were a reliable, non-privacy-invasive way of assuring human provenance so we could stop these kinds of false accusations. I want there to be reliably AI-free spaces again. All I can really do is use the trust system and hope that showing someone a doc's history occasionally is enough

[meejah@mastodon.social]

@Retreival9096 @sidalsolgun @Em0nM4stodon You might not know if a teacher said this to your child...

It's terrible and stupid and gross, and a very large school board where I live won't even intelligently talk about this stuff (Calgary Board of Education)

[epic_null@infosec.exchange]

@reformed_content_marketer @Em0nM4stodon Okay so this thought has only been in the oven like 5 minutes so forgive me but...

It seems to me this is an extension of our ongoing society-wide trust crisis.

We don't trust the news (why would we at this point)
We don't trust the government (for obvious reasons)
We don't trust each other
We don't trust AI (we shouldn't)

which kinda ties to our accountability crisis

and it feels like there's a final place to go from here but this idea is gonna need a lot time before it's ready.

[sidalsolgun@infosec.exchange]

@meejah @Retreival9096 @Em0nM4stodon

TDSB and others shouldn't be any different I guess.

Québec may be different as their education system is different AFAIK.

[reformed_content_marketer@mastodon.social]

@Epic_Null @Em0nM4stodon yeah, 100% agree. I don't even trust myself anymore half the time. I don't think I'm going to like whatever that final place to go from here is. Still thinking about how to determine what's trustworthy these days.

[retreival9096@hachyderm.io]

@meejah @sidalsolgun @Em0nM4stodon
I am fortunate my children are grown. Things weren't smooth for them, but this is one thing they didn't have to contend with.

[bcasiello@floss.social]

@Em0nM4stodon
AI vendors are probably highly motivated to make AIs lean toward false positives.
1. The more people see AI-identified stuff, the more ubiquitous and inevitable it seems.
2. If it's any good, AI gets the credit.

If they could actually detect quality, you can bet that only crap would get identified as 'not AI'.

[dalias@hachyderm.io]

@sidalsolgun @Em0nM4stodon It's an inappropriate accusation to make publicly in class regardless, but if "you're using AI" is something to be said, it should be in the sense of "the writing quality is garbage", not "I don't think you're capable of writing that well". 🤬

[cmthiede@social.vivaldi.net]

@Retreival9096 @meejah @sidalsolgun @Em0nM4stodon My AI is fighting your AI, and who's paying for all the AI? Where's all that $ going? It's a sham. Pretty soon the AI detectors will have done enough homework to put together state sponsored curriculum for AI public instruction to be taught in schools by humanoids.

https://social.vivaldi.net/@cmthiede/116952145892326469

[benjaminklein@mastodon.nu]

@Em0nM4stodon I listened to Tracie Harris on her podcast talk on exactly this. She had a good analogy with Dr Suess's story The Sneetches,

"In again! Out again!
Through the machines they raced round and about again,
Changing their stars every minute or two.
They kept paying money. They kept running through
Until neither the Plain nor the Star-Bellies knew
Whether this one was that one...or that one was this one
Or which one was what one...or what one was who."

https://seuss.fandom.com/wiki/The_Sneetches

[iveyline@mastodon.nz]

@Em0nM4stodon It would great if AI didn't exist at all. It's largely become a pesky nuisance. We have our own intelligence. Why on earth do we need AI? It's not even intelligent. Just a product of "stolen" rote learning.

[sidalsolgun@infosec.exchange]

@dalias @Em0nM4stodon

God sent you to me from the Based Department.

[nest@infosec.exchange]

@Em0nM4stodon

You're absolutely right, I see the issue now. There is no reliable way to tell if something is written by an AI since many people use a similar writing style.

Would you like me to provide you a list of AI detectors?

[️ regenerate]