I do appreciate all the work the EU has done with regulatory work around data sovereignty and the DMA.
-
@fogti @JessTheUnstill gmail, office 365, whatsapp, and DNS are all that need to be interrupted to stop functionally all business in most of the world. add aws and we're done
edit: aws. damn autocorrect
@mensrea @JessTheUnstill okay, just kill off the TLD and root zone DNS servers and the Internet would be almost dead within a week (caches take a while to expire).
That's not even a fair competition, given that TLS usually relies on DNS names, too.
-
@JessTheUnstill @fogti now, DNS would be the most problematic. which is the next biggest impact
-
I do appreciate all the work the EU has done with regulatory work around data sovereignty and the DMA. But they would still be gigafucked if the US ordered Amazon, Google, and Microsoft to cut them off. They may not even have the encryption keys accessible entirely in the EU. The fact that their data physically resides in Europe don't mean shit if a US corp can kill their whole infrastructure with a single command to lock their accounts.
This has been a risk the whole time businesses have been flocking to depend on these services, but it seems like the influence AWS etc have had on 'tech fashion' has made a pretty rough time for anyone questioning received wisdom up until recently. Hopefully all this stress and madness at least finally starts to crack that wall before the apocalypse comes (and/or while normal people are still allowed to buy a functioning computer).
-
I do appreciate all the work the EU has done with regulatory work around data sovereignty and the DMA. But they would still be gigafucked if the US ordered Amazon, Google, and Microsoft to cut them off. They may not even have the encryption keys accessible entirely in the EU. The fact that their data physically resides in Europe don't mean shit if a US corp can kill their whole infrastructure with a single command to lock their accounts.
@JessTheUnstill We are very well aware, I just wish our governments acted like they were aware...
-
I do appreciate all the work the EU has done with regulatory work around data sovereignty and the DMA. But they would still be gigafucked if the US ordered Amazon, Google, and Microsoft to cut them off. They may not even have the encryption keys accessible entirely in the EU. The fact that their data physically resides in Europe don't mean shit if a US corp can kill their whole infrastructure with a single command to lock their accounts.
@JessTheUnstill +1000 for "gigafucked". Yes, we would be
-
@JessTheUnstill We are very well aware, I just wish our governments acted like they were aware...
@JessTheUnstill Like, many of us EU techs have been screaming at the ruling class that we need to decouple essential infra things from the US. And we've been doing that since before your first experimentation with fascism, and we've been screaming that much louder since.
I mean, even when it looked like the US was still an ally, it was just unwise to give any foreign power that much control over critical infrastructure. Also, even ignoring that, forcing us to handle that ourselves would not be a bad thing for our own economy and internal skills.
But the leadership and capital class have only cared about short term profits for them... and in many ways still do.
-
@JessTheUnstill @fogti now, DNS would be the most problematic. which is the next biggest impact
-
@fogti @JessTheUnstill gmail, office 365, whatsapp, and DNS are all that need to be interrupted to stop functionally all business in most of the world. add aws and we're done
edit: aws. damn autocorrect
-
And even if they are running EU clouds - if the US CDNs cut them off, or black hole their DNS, or ...
Basically, the US internet could recover from severing international connections. Every other country would just be fucked.
@JessTheUnstill The weird thing is that I think that this actually happening might be the one thing that would get enough will to actually sort our shit out.
But yeah, it would cost a lot in chaos.
-
@JessTheUnstill The weird thing is that I think that this actually happening might be the one thing that would get enough will to actually sort our shit out.
But yeah, it would cost a lot in chaos.
@ainmosni essentially, this sort of thing should be a part of every critical infrastructure business continuity planning. Even if it's just a tabletop exercise.
-
@ainmosni essentially, this sort of thing should be a part of every critical infrastructure business continuity planning. Even if it's just a tabletop exercise.
@JessTheUnstill Agreed, but people tend to not learn these lessons until after the big disaster has happened. As in, when they look back on it.
-
@JessTheUnstill Agreed, but people tend to not learn these lessons until after the big disaster has happened. As in, when they look back on it.
@JessTheUnstill Besides that, it's also good to have the option to just disconnect from the US, just in case things escalate to a point that having the networks connected becomes too much of a risk.
-
@JessTheUnstill Besides that, it's also good to have the option to just disconnect from the US, just in case things escalate to a point that having the networks connected becomes too much of a risk.
@JessTheUnstill I do wonder if our leaders will learn a bit from the latest run in with your regime, and start putting stuff in motion.
The best tactic for the EU would be to stall politically while pushing initiatives to decouple as fast as possible.
-
@JessTheUnstill I do wonder if our leaders will learn a bit from the latest run in with your regime, and start putting stuff in motion.
The best tactic for the EU would be to stall politically while pushing initiatives to decouple as fast as possible.
@ainmosni The same could be said for LOTS of things that are tightly coupled to the US. But tech is something I know and can understand just how interconnected our industry is
-
@JessTheUnstill I do wonder if our leaders will learn a bit from the latest run in with your regime, and start putting stuff in motion.
The best tactic for the EU would be to stall politically while pushing initiatives to decouple as fast as possible.
@JessTheUnstill And with "as fast as possible" I'm more talking about a moonlanding/manhattan project style push, not a "we're going to put this out for public tender for the cheapest bidder and take our time, while we keep talking about how it would be nice" style project like our governments tend to do.
-
@ainmosni The same could be said for LOTS of things that are tightly coupled to the US. But tech is something I know and can understand just how interconnected our industry is
@JessTheUnstill Same, but the EU/US economies are so intertwined that an actual conflict would hurt both sides an insane amount.
-
@JessTheUnstill Same, but the EU/US economies are so intertwined that an actual conflict would hurt both sides an insane amount.
@ainmosni Still, even just demonstration that there are actual concrete plans to end their reliance on the US makes the threat have weight behind it. It's pointless saber rattling if everyone knows cutting the EU from the US would hurt the EU FAR more than it'd hurt the US. It's like trying to have a nuclear deterrent with 1/4 as many ICBMs
-
@ainmosni Still, even just demonstration that there are actual concrete plans to end their reliance on the US makes the threat have weight behind it. It's pointless saber rattling if everyone knows cutting the EU from the US would hurt the EU FAR more than it'd hurt the US. It's like trying to have a nuclear deterrent with 1/4 as many ICBMs
@JessTheUnstill yeah, tbh, I think Trump's behaviour is undoing one of the US's greatest strengths, the one where people didn't think too much on all the stuff we were using from over there, and that it was fine that the US underpinned so many things.
So much soft power squandered in such a short time.
-
@JessTheUnstill @fogti was thinking about a bit more of a weaponised option: microsoft ransomwares windows
-
@JessTheUnstill yeah, tbh, I think Trump's behaviour is undoing one of the US's greatest strengths, the one where people didn't think too much on all the stuff we were using from over there, and that it was fine that the US underpinned so many things.
So much soft power squandered in such a short time.
@ainmosni It's not just Trump. After Trump 1, and Biden coming into office, many countries were willing to accept that Trump was a weird one-off anomaly that the US Public had a screwed up election and voted an asshole for one term. The fact that we then elected him AGAIN. After an attempted coup, and with his explicit promises to fuck over anyone and everyone he doesn't like, including all of our allies. Now we've shown the world that even IF our elections and peaceful transition of power manages to occur in 26 and 28, they can reasonably anticipate a US fascist president will come back in power in 2032 or 2036. Because the fanatic fascist electorate will continue to be roughly 40% of the population no matter what. It just takes a below average Democrat candidate to let them roll into power again.
