Will anybody tell Linux Kernel, XFCE, TDE, and the other slop-slingers?
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@downey XFCE is slopware?
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Will anybody tell Linux Kernel, XFCE, TDE, and the other slop-slingers?
Cal Newport: "From the outside, software development seemed like the poster child for AI’s potential. On the inside, it’s a mess."
I posted on the LKML: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/e12330b9-c29e-45ca-9375-9e3d13426d85@horse64.org/T/
so far no response, though they appear to have seen it (e.g.: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20260703115852.GC3659451@killaraus.ideasonboard.com/ )
XFCE discussion: https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=19293
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@downey Translators could have warned developers that this would happen, but everyone's so busy going "LLMs are fantastic for translation, translators aren't needed any more" and refusing to listen when we point out how they fundamentally don't work on a really important level!
@janeishly @downey As a grateful consumer of translated works, I was appalled by the enthusiasm for machine translations. Nope. It ain't that easy.
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@downey XFCE is slopware?
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Will anybody tell Linux Kernel, XFCE, TDE, and the other slop-slingers?
Cal Newport: "From the outside, software development seemed like the poster child for AI’s potential. On the inside, it’s a mess."
Can this Community please stop Ad-Hominem?
Worse than the code chaos nowadays is the attitude.
If you have to use terms like „slop-slingers“ then this is a problem.
„Pyschological stability“ is one of the most important rules in Software teams.
The language and tone has changed in the #FOSS community. And this attitude I hate even more than chaotic code.
Because chaotic code can be eventually cleaned up.
But a fucked up community mentality is lost forever.
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Will anybody tell Linux Kernel, XFCE, TDE, and the other slop-slingers?
Cal Newport: "From the outside, software development seemed like the poster child for AI’s potential. On the inside, it’s a mess."
@downey as a side note, I've noticed GNOME didn't ban AI code submissions either:
GTK+ (seems to encourage AI use): https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#ai-contribution-policy
gnome-shell (doesn't mention and therefore seemingly allow AI use): https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell#contributing
So it might be possible GNOME has a high LLM intake too.
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Can this Community please stop Ad-Hominem?
Worse than the code chaos nowadays is the attitude.
If you have to use terms like „slop-slingers“ then this is a problem.
„Pyschological stability“ is one of the most important rules in Software teams.
The language and tone has changed in the #FOSS community. And this attitude I hate even more than chaotic code.
Because chaotic code can be eventually cleaned up.
But a fucked up community mentality is lost forever.
@jackpearse @downey stop slinging slop, we'll stop calling you a slop slinger.
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Will anybody tell Linux Kernel, XFCE, TDE, and the other slop-slingers?
Cal Newport: "From the outside, software development seemed like the poster child for AI’s potential. On the inside, it’s a mess."
@downey describing writing tests as a "particularly annoying task" tells you everything you need to know about the anonymous correspondent. They never had any interest in producing a quality result, but just in getting something out the door in the least inconvenient way. No wonder they fell hard for the lure of the slopmonster.
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Can this Community please stop Ad-Hominem?
Worse than the code chaos nowadays is the attitude.
If you have to use terms like „slop-slingers“ then this is a problem.
„Pyschological stability“ is one of the most important rules in Software teams.
The language and tone has changed in the #FOSS community. And this attitude I hate even more than chaotic code.
Because chaotic code can be eventually cleaned up.
But a fucked up community mentality is lost forever.
@jackpearse if you don't care to actually write your code then what are you even doing here
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@jackpearse @downey stop slinging slop, we'll stop calling you a slop slinger.
@womble you ever notice how none of these numpties have a better alternative to what to say besides "well just don't call us that, it hurts my feelings"?
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@downey Translators could have warned developers that this would happen, but everyone's so busy going "LLMs are fantastic for translation, translators aren't needed any more" and refusing to listen when we point out how they fundamentally don't work on a really important level!
They would probably give some snarky comment about how you should stay in your lane before ignoring the data…
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Can this Community please stop Ad-Hominem?
Worse than the code chaos nowadays is the attitude.
If you have to use terms like „slop-slingers“ then this is a problem.
„Pyschological stability“ is one of the most important rules in Software teams.
The language and tone has changed in the #FOSS community. And this attitude I hate even more than chaotic code.
Because chaotic code can be eventually cleaned up.
But a fucked up community mentality is lost forever.
@jackpearse @downey i keep saying, public shaming *works*
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@janeishly @downey I don't get it. First the slop machines came for writing, and everyone went “This writing is shit!”.
Then they came for art, and everyone went "This art is shit!”.Now they're "creating" software, and somehow I'm the crazy one for saying that maybe we shouldn’t.
This is all because the tech got establishment acceptance. Those who were chosen now think themselves gods among the peons, and see this as their chance to ascend to the heavens.
I hope they crack their nuts on a lathe when they inevitably fall
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Will anybody tell Linux Kernel, XFCE, TDE, and the other slop-slingers?
Cal Newport: "From the outside, software development seemed like the poster child for AI’s potential. On the inside, it’s a mess."
@downey oh great. Cal made me a little mad at one point by saying something vaguely positive about Claude Code but this repairs some of the damage
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@womble you ever notice how none of these numpties have a better alternative to what to say besides "well just don't call us that, it hurts my feelings"?
@atax1a they want to be called "God-emperor of the seven kingdoms, Lord of all lands", but they retain enough self awareness to know that might sound a bit naff.
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@atax1a they want to be called "God-emperor of the seven kingdoms, Lord of all lands", but they retain enough self awareness to know that might sound a bit naff.
@womble thank fuck for small mercies
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Will anybody tell Linux Kernel, XFCE, TDE, and the other slop-slingers?
Cal Newport: "From the outside, software development seemed like the poster child for AI’s potential. On the inside, it’s a mess."
@downey Oh FFS, XFCE too. It doesn't even have enough change to warrant it. Does computing want me to go back to terminal life like the 80s and 90s (though, they were the good days, unless you had an Amiga, that was great!)?? -
Will anybody tell Linux Kernel, XFCE, TDE, and the other slop-slingers?
Cal Newport: "From the outside, software development seemed like the poster child for AI’s potential. On the inside, it’s a mess."
@downey I like this comment, illustrates how LLMs get you by seeming to help with irrelevant futile non-tasks and then they mess your shit up when actually trying to make any real use of their purported capabilities. Worse than useless, ofc yet to wholly dawn on this particular fool in the quote.
quote
I was one of the developers who wrote to you about how much I love building things with Claude Code.
That was the honeymoon phase.
I was mostly building my own project (green field) and I used it for my angular frontend as well…
It’s pretty good at generating the first features fast. And it sounds reasonable when you brainstorm ideas with it.
It’s also pretty good with angular frontends when components are not too complex.But I have since used it for production code of our very very complex reinsurance contract software.
It fucked up every time.
Our codebase is just too complicated and messy, it seems.
The reasoning for changes sounded very reasonable and the code does look good as well.
But I have had to go back and redo most tickets I used it for.
And looking at the actual changes after taking the time to deeply understand the logic I was changing made me embarrassed.end quote
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@janeishly @downey I don't get it. First the slop machines came for writing, and everyone went “This writing is shit!”.
Then they came for art, and everyone went "This art is shit!”.Now they're "creating" software, and somehow I'm the crazy one for saying that maybe we shouldn’t.
@kp @janeishly @downey You are not crazy and you are not alone.
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They would probably give some snarky comment about how you should stay in your lane before ignoring the data…
I dunno if it’s an intelligence issue as much as it is a mindset and awareness issue.
I suspect that falls under wisdom as opposed to raw intellect. But I am not a professional on this topic…
