Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs.
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@stefano Vorwerk recently discontinued the cloud services for their Neato vacuum robots, bricking tens of thousands of 500€+ devices.
@Rik_Dhuyvetters exactly. I still have one of them (broken, but still...).
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano Isn’t it a matter of network infrastructure reliability and ubiquitousness more than the tech itself?
One could have said the same about cell phone networks when they first appeared.
Your data transits regardless via a network service provider…?
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
Cloud storage I refuse to use any device that depends on it.
Local persons stood in front of fully charged solar battery's and were unable to use any power at all. There was an outage.
They made two errors, their device synchronized with mains and only works with Eco Flow Cloud.
My delta pro delivers, any time anywhere.
I no longer endorse eco flow...
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano We got a thermopump installed and the chap was « …and now you have to enter the wifi credentials. » « Can we not do it? » « Sorry? » « Will it work if we don’t connect it to the wifi? » « Oh, I guess it will… » I can’t believe how normalized spyware is now.
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano and he didnt say to buy a new one?
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@raymaccarthy @s1m0n4 @stefano the OP was on about notifications, way beyond me to DIY those. You can get ESP32 alarm control boards ready made, and then you can connect them into HA for the advanced functions. Then you can also integrate any other HA sensors, etc. Looks far easier than rolling your own from scratch. Even so it will have been at least 5 years before I actually get around to it.
@theolodian @s1m0n4 @raymaccarthy @stefano Afaik there are 2g, 3g and 4g modem-modules out there which can be controlled by a arduino/ESP level device to send out SMS alerts.
Still has it's own complexity but should be accessible without going too deep into microcontroller programming.
[...]
Heh, a simple search brought up this:
esphome.io/components/sim800l/
"The SIM800L Component provides the ability to dial, answer calls, send/receive SMS text messages and send/receive USSD codes. The device must be connected via a UART bus supporting both receiving and transmitting line."
So .. doing that within home-assistant and the esphome addon should be possible..
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano The vulnerability tech giants have thoughtlessly placed the world in terrifies me.
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
Same issue I had when they started replacing phone lines with VOIP.
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@theolodian @s1m0n4 @raymaccarthy @stefano Afaik there are 2g, 3g and 4g modem-modules out there which can be controlled by a arduino/ESP level device to send out SMS alerts.
Still has it's own complexity but should be accessible without going too deep into microcontroller programming.
[...]
Heh, a simple search brought up this:
esphome.io/components/sim800l/
"The SIM800L Component provides the ability to dial, answer calls, send/receive SMS text messages and send/receive USSD codes. The device must be connected via a UART bus supporting both receiving and transmitting line."
So .. doing that within home-assistant and the esphome addon should be possible..
@hackbyte @stefano @s1m0n4 @theolodian
Done it with an RS232 cable, an old Nokia and VB6 decades ago.I think some modules use like old modem AT commands.
EDIT
Modules have TTL Serial I/O & 5V on on DIL SOM socket and aerial connector. A small scrap of stripboard and cheap PIC running a simple C, JAL or Basic program can be done in a day or two. Arduino / ESP and Home Assistant is more complication than needed unless you want more than entry switches & movement sensors. WiFi is vulnerable. -
Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano The most recent alarm and camera system I dealt with required a static IP for the client system to authenticate to their cloud. They owned the hardware on both sides of the connection but still needed a static IP. ;<(
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano Sure does seem like all this technology going wrong in unprecedented ways is because this seems to be the first time where we expanded technology this aggressively and just chucked the old system that could easily have been an emergency backup into a landfill.
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@stefano and he didnt say to buy a new one?
@antdude no, he suggested to keep this one. Honest guy.
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@stefano Isn’t it a matter of network infrastructure reliability and ubiquitousness more than the tech itself?
One could have said the same about cell phone networks when they first appeared.
Your data transits regardless via a network service provider…?
@tmstamp it's ok if it's using 4g instead of calling.
It's not ok if it needs to pass through the producer's cloud server to send me a notification. -
Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano We're having a new kitchen, to replace one that's around 40 years old. The salesman was trying to sell us all sorts of gizmos. Our response to most was:
* Will the server still be working in 40 years time when this new kitchen wears out?
And even for things that didn't need servers
* Isn't that just another complicated gadget to break down? - will the spare parts still be available in 40 years time?
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano SIM cards ain't perfect too. I remember you the case of the alarms of failure on the Italian railroad system: when a real failure happened no alarm was signaled.
People at RFI forgot to pay the annual subscription to the service for the SIMs, and they ended disabled. -
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@hackbyte @stefano @s1m0n4 @theolodian
Done it with an RS232 cable, an old Nokia and VB6 decades ago.I think some modules use like old modem AT commands.
EDIT
Modules have TTL Serial I/O & 5V on on DIL SOM socket and aerial connector. A small scrap of stripboard and cheap PIC running a simple C, JAL or Basic program can be done in a day or two. Arduino / ESP and Home Assistant is more complication than needed unless you want more than entry switches & movement sensors. WiFi is vulnerable.@raymaccarthy @hackbyte @stefano @s1m0n4 I don’t know how to code. I guess that I could try your approach by using AI, but using HA seems much more likely to work for me.
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@stefano We're having a new kitchen, to replace one that's around 40 years old. The salesman was trying to sell us all sorts of gizmos. Our response to most was:
* Will the server still be working in 40 years time when this new kitchen wears out?
And even for things that didn't need servers
* Isn't that just another complicated gadget to break down? - will the spare parts still be available in 40 years time?
@TimWardCam @stefano You can't count on spare parts over 40 years no matter what it is. We have that problem with our old Wolf range. Sub-Zero doesn't have the parts for older models. If someone knows where I can get a toggle switch for a 35-year-old Oster blender, I'd like to know.
But I do adhere to the general principle of if it needs an app and/or wifi, it is not allowed in my kitchen.
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Yesterday, one of the younger electricians was telling me about the beauty of the new alarm systems he installs. While acknowledging the quality of my current one, he said, "It uses a SIM card and calls you. The new ones are 4G or Wi-Fi and use the cloud, so notifications go straight to your smartphone, it's not calling anymore."
I asked him, "And what if the cloud stops working? Why should I have to depend on the company’s cloud to receive alerts from my alarm? My alarm is 10 years old and works perfectly. Can you say with certainty that the company’s cloud will still be effective 10 years from now?"
He looked puzzled for a moment, then admitted he had never thought about it.
The real problem is that people do not realize what this means until things actually happen.
@stefano The lifts in my building were out of commission for a day or two when the company that owned them suddenly realised, right *after* the phone company had switched off the 3G network in favour of 5G, that the lifts' alarm systems relied on 3G....
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@TimWardCam @stefano You can't count on spare parts over 40 years no matter what it is. We have that problem with our old Wolf range. Sub-Zero doesn't have the parts for older models. If someone knows where I can get a toggle switch for a 35-year-old Oster blender, I'd like to know.
But I do adhere to the general principle of if it needs an app and/or wifi, it is not allowed in my kitchen.
@maccruiskeen @stefano Ah, not necessarily like-for-like spare parts, but if all that's needed to fix the kitchen is carpentry and glue and screwdriver that doesn't always matter too much.
Yes, appliances mostly don't last that long any more, unlike the built-like-a-tank gas stove that my grandma had.
