The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
-
The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
@iFixit adding that if a vehicle has "illegal parts" fitted and is involved in an accident, any insurance would not pay out and the owner and user of the vehicle could technically be taken to court.
-
@mihamarkic @iFixit yeah, but most likely they will implement in such way that thieves will know to to bypass it and end user will be left with the burden. IMO unless they make this system open and will allow independent shops to work on we will just end up with more ewaste.
@exus1pl @mihamarkic @iFixit proper implementation is important
-
@publicvoit @iFixit you can use the bikes without ever using the app.
-
art. 11a; A legal owner of a computer program can copy it for safe-keeping (only!)
A legal owner of a computer program can disassemble the program to examine, investigate or test the program to learn its workings and the ideas and views the individual parts of the programs rest on, given that these actions are in conjunction with the permissable use rightholder has in conjuction of the perusal of the software.@thor @schmittlauch @iFixit in addition, when you flashed your own software on that hardware, it would also be legal.
-
@iFixit TBH e-bikes theft is pretty popular and we need a deterrent. Being dependent on Bosch's mercy isn't probably the best, though.
@mihamarkic @iFixit CES 2028 will announce the "using the battery you've bought" subscription where you get to pay $50 a year to use your own battery. Likely with a $100 subscription variant to use the full capacity, or a $10 one-day full capacity microtransaction - or $20 if it's very cold or if it detects that you're far from home & the battery is almost "empty".
-
@thor @schmittlauch @iFixit in addition, when you flashed your own software on that hardware, it would also be legal.
Exactly
-
@mihamarkic @iFixit CES 2028 will announce the "using the battery you've bought" subscription where you get to pay $50 a year to use your own battery. Likely with a $100 subscription variant to use the full capacity, or a $10 one-day full capacity microtransaction - or $20 if it's very cold or if it detects that you're far from home & the battery is almost "empty".
-
@mihamarkic @iFixit yeah, but most likely they will implement in such way that thieves will know to to bypass it and end user will be left with the burden. IMO unless they make this system open and will allow independent shops to work on we will just end up with more ewaste.
-
@publicvoit @iFixit you can use the bikes without ever using the app.
@Tho99 @publicvoit @iFixit AFIK Bosch hast long mechanisms in place that prevents you from repairing Akkupacks and the like. The protocol for service apps is totally opaque.
It's enshittified, don't buy.
-
@mihamarkic @iFixit I completely understand that preventing your bicycle to be stolen is a good thing. I want that.
But I don't want that if it comes with a side of being tied into somebody's ecosystem, with a half million dollar & 5 year jail penalty for fixing your bike, because based on history we just *know* that corporate will push through on such schemes if they are physically able to do so.
What about instead having a yubikey (or equivalent security key) that functions as your bicycle key? And requiring it to be able to replace any parts? That accomplishes the exact same thing that this tethered system does, without the downsides and risks.
-
The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
@iFixit how the hell is this shit legal
-
@iFixit Additionally, even when we do not suggest that Bosch might abuse their powers (which they are still likely to do at some point), they can just break repairability of your bike out of pure indifference at some point when they shut down the pairing server infrastructure. When *they* say your bike components are EOL, your whole bike becomes EOL when even used parts cease to be usable for repair.
( @pluralistic of course knows this )@schmittlauch
I think this is inevitable.otoh
seems the bafang folks are losing interest in the 'conversion-kit' mid drive market, and are strongly moving into the oem market.
I'd be less than surprised to see a bafang drop-in replacement for bosch-standard (and shimano as well) mid drive.
may require 3rd party adapter mount, as I'm pretty sure bosch/shimano/others are very protective of their mounting patents
bafang has been cool about open source firmware as well.
-
@iFixit as an ebike user I do not agree. The option for this is awesome and long overdue. Bike theft is a real problem and if I have 3 computers on the bike that can be electronically locked, why should I not use this option?
My 9 year old Bosch bike already has a computer in the battery, in the motor and in the display unit. It has buttons, let me lock my property digitally!
@volkersfreunde if you could digitally lock it, store the key somewhere safe in your home and then unlock it again for repairs, I'd love to have this as a theft deterrent.
But doing it in this much more complex way shows clearly, it's primarily built to prevent independent repairs, a 3rd party parts market, etc
-
@volkersfreunde if you could digitally lock it, store the key somewhere safe in your home and then unlock it again for repairs, I'd love to have this as a theft deterrent.
But doing it in this much more complex way shows clearly, it's primarily built to prevent independent repairs, a 3rd party parts market, etc
-
@iFixit Additionally, even when we do not suggest that Bosch might abuse their powers (which they are still likely to do at some point), they can just break repairability of your bike out of pure indifference at some point when they shut down the pairing server infrastructure. When *they* say your bike components are EOL, your whole bike becomes EOL when even used parts cease to be usable for repair.
( @pluralistic of course knows this )@schmittlauch @iFixit @pluralistic
What surprises me is that they're not using the (real) issue of e-bike battery fires as their lead excuse. Of course a dodgy rebuild of an existing battery becomes more attractive when a decent 3rd party replacement isn't an option -
The Bosch eBike Flow App wins the CES Worst in Show award for Enshittification!
@iFixit Why is there no law that forbid this stupid pairing disaster. And DMCA where never a good thing from the begin.
-
P pelle@veganism.social shared this topic
