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  3. I am writing a blog post about why it is bad to use AI.

I am writing a blog post about why it is bad to use AI.

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  • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

    serious question though, is there a requests (or httpx or treq or whatever) compatible selenium driver so that I can write a simple Python CLI that just says "give me URL please" and Safari does all the HTTP traffic so it can get the request body with all my ridiculous CAPTCHAs and news website logins in it

    jay@oldos.meJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jay@oldos.meJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jay@oldos.me
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #8

    @glyph we needed to do this for ironic, originally implemented it as selenium but switched to a Firefox extension

    jay@oldos.meJ 1 Reply Last reply
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    • jay@oldos.meJ jay@oldos.me

      @glyph we needed to do this for ironic, originally implemented it as selenium but switched to a Firefox extension

      jay@oldos.meJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jay@oldos.meJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jay@oldos.me
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #9

      @glyph https://opendev.org/openstack/ironic/src/branch/master/tools/vnc-container/extension

      glyph@mastodon.socialG 1 Reply Last reply
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      • jay@oldos.meJ jay@oldos.me

        @glyph https://opendev.org/openstack/ironic/src/branch/master/tools/vnc-container/extension

        glyph@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
        glyph@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
        glyph@mastodon.social
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #10

        @jay I need safari specifically and it looks like selenium works well enough

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

          we live in hell but at least PyPI works in hell

          eichin@mastodon.mit.eduE This user is from outside of this forum
          eichin@mastodon.mit.eduE This user is from outside of this forum
          eichin@mastodon.mit.edu
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #11

          @glyph heh, my side project this week was the reverse of that - selenium to "run" a page (lots of javascript based partial execution) and click a button (which rewrote part of the page without reloading)... and then extract a URL from that and use requests to cleanly get a Location: header out (basically forcing the service to canonicalize itself for me.)

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

            serious question though, is there a requests (or httpx or treq or whatever) compatible selenium driver so that I can write a simple Python CLI that just says "give me URL please" and Safari does all the HTTP traffic so it can get the request body with all my ridiculous CAPTCHAs and news website logins in it

            cthos@mastodon.cthos.devC This user is from outside of this forum
            cthos@mastodon.cthos.devC This user is from outside of this forum
            cthos@mastodon.cthos.dev
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #12

            @glyph Yeah, halfway through this thread I was going to suggest Selenium so looks like you got it.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

              serious question though, is there a requests (or httpx or treq or whatever) compatible selenium driver so that I can write a simple Python CLI that just says "give me URL please" and Safari does all the HTTP traffic so it can get the request body with all my ridiculous CAPTCHAs and news website logins in it

              mborus@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              mborus@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              mborus@mastodon.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #13

              @glyph instead of Selenium, you may want to check out Playwright. https://pypi.org/project/playwright/

              It allows browser automation in a very pythonic way - also headless. It installs its own Chrome/Firefox/Safari and avoids any configuration you done to your browser installs.

              bitprophet@social.coopB 1 Reply Last reply
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              • mborus@mastodon.socialM mborus@mastodon.social

                @glyph instead of Selenium, you may want to check out Playwright. https://pypi.org/project/playwright/

                It allows browser automation in a very pythonic way - also headless. It installs its own Chrome/Firefox/Safari and avoids any configuration you done to your browser installs.

                bitprophet@social.coopB This user is from outside of this forum
                bitprophet@social.coopB This user is from outside of this forum
                bitprophet@social.coop
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #14

                @mborus @glyph this, Playwright has been really nice to use in my experience!

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

                  I am writing a blog post about why it is bad to use AI. It is extremely heavily sourced. I have a tedious automation problem formatting my citations. No problem, I think. I will write a computer program. The computer program does not work, because websites are blocking simple computer programs in an effort to block AI. Solution? Simple. Browser comes with AI embedded, browses like a human, has all my cookies. Just ask the AI. It sails through the primitive anti-AI measures easily.

                  mcc@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mcc@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mcc@mastodon.social
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #15

                  @glyph When I think about "AI" I often think about how we had cities built to be navigated by people, and then we rebuilt the cities to be more easily navigated by cars, and now people without cars can't navigate the cities because we specifically designed them to require cars

                  paul_ipv6@infosec.exchangeP wyatt_h_knott@mstdn.socialW fayedrake@furry.engineerF lne@social.praxis.nycL lindsey@recurse.socialL 5 Replies Last reply
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                  • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

                    I am writing a blog post about why it is bad to use AI. It is extremely heavily sourced. I have a tedious automation problem formatting my citations. No problem, I think. I will write a computer program. The computer program does not work, because websites are blocking simple computer programs in an effort to block AI. Solution? Simple. Browser comes with AI embedded, browses like a human, has all my cookies. Just ask the AI. It sails through the primitive anti-AI measures easily.

                    nom@mk.spook.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                    nom@mk.spook.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                    nom@mk.spook.social
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #16

                    @glyph@mastodon.social Rather than writing the browser to accept the AI, write the browser to be controlled from BASH + ZSH. Then we all can use it to our advantage. Not just the UI.

                    Web browsers are really lame... very old tech with piles of the worst engineering on top the world has ever seen. Worse than Windows 95/98. Worse than MacOS8. Worse than CICS+RACF. Worst product ever constructed.

                    But if you build the control mechanism for the web you can still redesign the web clients to be something decent. So that's the way I think it should be done... rather than an "AI interface for the web."

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • mcc@mastodon.socialM mcc@mastodon.social

                      @glyph When I think about "AI" I often think about how we had cities built to be navigated by people, and then we rebuilt the cities to be more easily navigated by cars, and now people without cars can't navigate the cities because we specifically designed them to require cars

                      paul_ipv6@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                      paul_ipv6@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                      paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #17

                      @mcc @glyph

                      an important lesson.

                      the flip side is that cities in the netherlands, in france, etc. have reversed this, reclaimed areas as more suitable for pedestrians and bikes. let's see if we can't do some trend reversal in tech too.

                      tarmil@mastodon.tarmil.frT 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • mcc@mastodon.socialM mcc@mastodon.social

                        @glyph When I think about "AI" I often think about how we had cities built to be navigated by people, and then we rebuilt the cities to be more easily navigated by cars, and now people without cars can't navigate the cities because we specifically designed them to require cars

                        wyatt_h_knott@mstdn.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                        wyatt_h_knott@mstdn.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                        wyatt_h_knott@mstdn.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #18

                        @mcc @glyph and now even the robot cars have problems driving around the cities

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • fayedrake@furry.engineerF fayedrake@furry.engineer

                          @mcc @glyph @mhoye I had that argument with a previous employer over mob programming.

                          They were trying to make everyone do it, it was burning some of us out.

                          Their response was “you can just not do it and the rest of the team will do it without you”.

                          Well, oh Einstein of managers, what do you think is going to happen when all the tools and communication structures the team uses assume mob programming, just like is required to do it properly? It’s not a real option to just not engage. You’ve just forced several of your staff out of a job because it was that or burning them out within weeks, and you’ve managed to paint it as their fault.

                          Ever since then I’ve been incredibly cynical about any “cultural shifts”. If it’s optional then it’s totally not optional they just don’t want to take the responsibility.

                          fayedrake@furry.engineerF This user is from outside of this forum
                          fayedrake@furry.engineerF This user is from outside of this forum
                          fayedrake@furry.engineer
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #19

                          @mcc @glyph @mhoye But yes. One of the contributing factors to the AI issue is that Google Search has been purposely been made worse. Right now the drive to make people use Gemini only doubles down on that incentive.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • mcc@mastodon.socialM mcc@mastodon.social

                            @glyph When I think about "AI" I often think about how we had cities built to be navigated by people, and then we rebuilt the cities to be more easily navigated by cars, and now people without cars can't navigate the cities because we specifically designed them to require cars

                            fayedrake@furry.engineerF This user is from outside of this forum
                            fayedrake@furry.engineerF This user is from outside of this forum
                            fayedrake@furry.engineer
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #20

                            @mcc @glyph @mhoye I had that argument with a previous employer over mob programming.

                            They were trying to make everyone do it, it was burning some of us out.

                            Their response was “you can just not do it and the rest of the team will do it without you”.

                            Well, oh Einstein of managers, what do you think is going to happen when all the tools and communication structures the team uses assume mob programming, just like is required to do it properly? It’s not a real option to just not engage. You’ve just forced several of your staff out of a job because it was that or burning them out within weeks, and you’ve managed to paint it as their fault.

                            Ever since then I’ve been incredibly cynical about any “cultural shifts”. If it’s optional then it’s totally not optional they just don’t want to take the responsibility.

                            fayedrake@furry.engineerF griotspeak@soc.mod-12.comG arakin@meow.socialA 3 Replies Last reply
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                            • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

                              I am writing a blog post about why it is bad to use AI. It is extremely heavily sourced. I have a tedious automation problem formatting my citations. No problem, I think. I will write a computer program. The computer program does not work, because websites are blocking simple computer programs in an effort to block AI. Solution? Simple. Browser comes with AI embedded, browses like a human, has all my cookies. Just ask the AI. It sails through the primitive anti-AI measures easily.

                              timwardcam@c.imT This user is from outside of this forum
                              timwardcam@c.imT This user is from outside of this forum
                              timwardcam@c.im
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #21

                              @glyph I asked the corporate AI how to circumvent some tedious corporate security restrictions. Instead of reporting me it gave me some useful suggestions.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • fayedrake@furry.engineerF fayedrake@furry.engineer

                                @mcc @glyph @mhoye I had that argument with a previous employer over mob programming.

                                They were trying to make everyone do it, it was burning some of us out.

                                Their response was “you can just not do it and the rest of the team will do it without you”.

                                Well, oh Einstein of managers, what do you think is going to happen when all the tools and communication structures the team uses assume mob programming, just like is required to do it properly? It’s not a real option to just not engage. You’ve just forced several of your staff out of a job because it was that or burning them out within weeks, and you’ve managed to paint it as their fault.

                                Ever since then I’ve been incredibly cynical about any “cultural shifts”. If it’s optional then it’s totally not optional they just don’t want to take the responsibility.

                                griotspeak@soc.mod-12.comG This user is from outside of this forum
                                griotspeak@soc.mod-12.comG This user is from outside of this forum
                                griotspeak@soc.mod-12.com
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #22

                                @FayeDrake @mcc @glyph @mhoye What about mob programming burned folks out? I’ve always kinda wished mob programming or pair programming was more common than “go off somewhere and return with the PR” but it sounds like it didn’t have much upside where you were

                                mcc@mastodon.socialM glyph@mastodon.socialG fayedrake@furry.engineerF 3 Replies Last reply
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                                • griotspeak@soc.mod-12.comG griotspeak@soc.mod-12.com

                                  @FayeDrake @mcc @glyph @mhoye What about mob programming burned folks out? I’ve always kinda wished mob programming or pair programming was more common than “go off somewhere and return with the PR” but it sounds like it didn’t have much upside where you were

                                  mcc@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mcc@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mcc@mastodon.social
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #23

                                  @griotspeak @FayeDrake @glyph @mhoye Is mob programming the one with random encounters

                                  mhoye@cosocial.caM ozzelot@mstdn.socialO 2 Replies Last reply
                                  0
                                  • griotspeak@soc.mod-12.comG griotspeak@soc.mod-12.com

                                    @FayeDrake @mcc @glyph @mhoye What about mob programming burned folks out? I’ve always kinda wished mob programming or pair programming was more common than “go off somewhere and return with the PR” but it sounds like it didn’t have much upside where you were

                                    glyph@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    glyph@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    glyph@mastodon.social
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #24

                                    @griotspeak @FayeDrake @mcc @mhoye I can't answer for Faye but I can relate from my own experience trying to advocate for pair programming: the efficacy and enjoyability pairing is extremely dependent upon personality. for socially anxious people it can feel like torture. for people with difficulty with task initiation it can feel borderline necessary. it's *really* hard to come up with generalizable processes around it, you have to be very responsive to the specific personalities on your team

                                    glyph@mastodon.socialG griotspeak@soc.mod-12.comG 2 Replies Last reply
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                                    • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

                                      @griotspeak @FayeDrake @mcc @mhoye I can't answer for Faye but I can relate from my own experience trying to advocate for pair programming: the efficacy and enjoyability pairing is extremely dependent upon personality. for socially anxious people it can feel like torture. for people with difficulty with task initiation it can feel borderline necessary. it's *really* hard to come up with generalizable processes around it, you have to be very responsive to the specific personalities on your team

                                      glyph@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      glyph@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      glyph@mastodon.social
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #25

                                      @griotspeak @FayeDrake @mcc @mhoye personally I used to be of the opinion "pairing is always good, you just gotta give it a try" and for a lot of people, even some who thought they wouldn't like it, I was right. but for a few people (who I have now long since made amends to) the growing expectation that they would do it all the time made them feel anxious about coming in to work.

                                      I've never been anywhere that it really settled in to a final steady state that everyone was happy with.

                                      fayedrake@furry.engineerF 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • glyph@mastodon.socialG glyph@mastodon.social

                                        @griotspeak @FayeDrake @mcc @mhoye I can't answer for Faye but I can relate from my own experience trying to advocate for pair programming: the efficacy and enjoyability pairing is extremely dependent upon personality. for socially anxious people it can feel like torture. for people with difficulty with task initiation it can feel borderline necessary. it's *really* hard to come up with generalizable processes around it, you have to be very responsive to the specific personalities on your team

                                        griotspeak@soc.mod-12.comG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        griotspeak@soc.mod-12.comG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        griotspeak@soc.mod-12.com
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #26

                                        @glyph @FayeDrake @mcc @mhoye That makes sense. I guess another concern is the actually pairings and who works well together. Thank you for the response. Obvious though it is in one sense, the information sharing and community building part just… overshadow that in my imagining

                                        glyph@mastodon.socialG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • paul_ipv6@infosec.exchangeP paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange

                                          @mcc @glyph

                                          an important lesson.

                                          the flip side is that cities in the netherlands, in france, etc. have reversed this, reclaimed areas as more suitable for pedestrians and bikes. let's see if we can't do some trend reversal in tech too.

                                          tarmil@mastodon.tarmil.frT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tarmil@mastodon.tarmil.frT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tarmil@mastodon.tarmil.fr
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #27

                                          @paul_ipv6 @mcc @glyph I wouldn't put this sentence in the past tense, at least not for France, but things are indeed improving in most cities.

                                          paul_ipv6@infosec.exchangeP 1 Reply Last reply
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