(1/5) I want to share a personal story today.
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(1/5) I want to share a personal story today. This will be a thread, so please bear with me.
I’m pursuing a master’s degree in digital society alongside my work. Yesterday, I started to attend a course on research methods in the social sciences. The lecturer told us that our assignment would be to perform a research task using a slop machine.
I protested, of course, making my case why I considered using slop machines in research and educational highly unethical. (...)@r_alb as a lecturer who also teaches research methods and refuses any kind of llm, I'm so glad to read this! thanks for sharing!
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@r_alb as a lecturer who also teaches research methods and refuses any kind of llm, I'm so glad to read this! thanks for sharing!
@tizlit
Thank you for doing it! I hope you're not the only one at your workplace! -
@noodlemaz @barabasz @r_alb
I think it’s all down to the way education is seen: it’s not a means to grow minds and think, it’s a process to be completed so that the student can move through the education system and emerge as functioning droids.
This has always been the goal under capitalism - to make more workers but it used to be that capitalism also required workers who could do analysis and make improvements. That role has been assigned to genAI.@OneInterestingFact
Sad but true! -
@noodlemaz
In my opinion, the issue is that the ethical implications of using slop machines in education (or for any other purpose) are usually ignored. I get why teachers feel pressure to somehow include those models into their classes. But those decisions should be made based on the whole picture - including ethics - and not just because the LLM bros keep telling us that everyone who's not using their products will be at an disadvantage soon (which is obviously a marketing lie). -
(5/5) But at least we stood firm on our principles and managed to defend another aspect of our lives against being encroached on by slop machines.
On a more personal level, it really meant the world to me that my colleagues obviously weren’t opting for the „easy“ way, as everyone else did, but instead had made the ethical choice together with me. Not being alone in this situation really felt so good, and I realize how much I needed this tiny act of joint defiance right now.@r_alb Your characterization of (I presume) AI as "slop machines" makes it look like no useful work can be done with it. My experience tells me otherwise
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@noodlemaz
In my opinion, the issue is that the ethical implications of using slop machines in education (or for any other purpose) are usually ignored. I get why teachers feel pressure to somehow include those models into their classes. But those decisions should be made based on the whole picture - including ethics - and not just because the LLM bros keep telling us that everyone who's not using their products will be at an disadvantage soon (which is obviously a marketing lie).@r_alb @barabasz I know it's a lie, but practically, if you put yourself in their position
Overworked, underpaid and under resourced
Faced with shitty parents and belligerent students oftentimes
And a thing that most people are using for whatever reason
And pressure from your bosses to get on board probablyWhile you and I can, for now, keep refusing - do they have much of a choice? Or does it make them safer to incorporate things somehow. I agree use is unethical. But a lot of people just aren't able to make a stand about that, and I think that's true of a lot of teachers. They'll get back submissions with unknown AI use and input instead of in their case knowing who's used it.
It's not the best example I've seen of using it to teach people - teach them it's not really doing what they need or how bad it is is ideal - but I still can't put the blame on teachers. They're making do, as they have been for so long. Maybe that's over-charitable for all of them, but worth considering.
I still think it's important to bring up! People who do want to refuse need to know they're not alone.
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@r_alb @barabasz I know it's a lie, but practically, if you put yourself in their position
Overworked, underpaid and under resourced
Faced with shitty parents and belligerent students oftentimes
And a thing that most people are using for whatever reason
And pressure from your bosses to get on board probablyWhile you and I can, for now, keep refusing - do they have much of a choice? Or does it make them safer to incorporate things somehow. I agree use is unethical. But a lot of people just aren't able to make a stand about that, and I think that's true of a lot of teachers. They'll get back submissions with unknown AI use and input instead of in their case knowing who's used it.
It's not the best example I've seen of using it to teach people - teach them it's not really doing what they need or how bad it is is ideal - but I still can't put the blame on teachers. They're making do, as they have been for so long. Maybe that's over-charitable for all of them, but worth considering.
I still think it's important to bring up! People who do want to refuse need to know they're not alone.
Thank you for sharing teachers' perspective! You're right, of course, and it certainly wasn't my intention to lay all the blame on teachers. They are in the same situation as all of us, having those models thrown at them on every occasion. Plus, they have to think about what's good for those they're teaching.
I know exactly whom I want and have to blame for the mess we're in. -
@r_alb Your characterization of (I presume) AI as "slop machines" makes it look like no useful work can be done with it. My experience tells me otherwise
@xpmatteo
If 'it can do useful stuff' is your only defence of and reason for slop machines, I must say you're in the wrong thread here.
We're not LLM bros. Whether something gets done or not isn't my only measure. I deeply care about how it is done!
I also don't care about whether technology could do something. I care about whether something should be done with technology! -
@xpmatteo
If 'it can do useful stuff' is your only defence of and reason for slop machines, I must say you're in the wrong thread here.
We're not LLM bros. Whether something gets done or not isn't my only measure. I deeply care about how it is done!
I also don't care about whether technology could do something. I care about whether something should be done with technology! -
@tizlit
Thank you for doing it! I hope you're not the only one at your workplace!@r_alb hard to say! I think a lot of lecturers use llms but don't admit to it. I know of only one who definitely doesn't use it
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