I think I need to share an experience I just had recently.
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I happen to know that this is man is quite conservative in a lot of ways. He's steeped in the Foxosphere to a degree that alarms his relatives. I know he was a huge Trump supporter the first time around, and I'm pretty sure he was this time too.
And even stewing in those juices, even •he• is just ready to see the world change for the better for trans people.
I know with all of the horrifying backsliding we've seen these last few years, it feels like there's no hope for trans people. And…yeah, these really are dire, dire times. Dire. It is •horrifying• what's been coming to the political surface. But damnit…beneath the surface, the tectonic plates are moving. Despair, rage, lament, yes…but do not give up hope.
/end
Awww, wholesome. 🥰
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I went out on a limb a bit. I talked about how in the course of teaching college I'd known several students through the length of their transition, before and after — and in every one of those cases, it felt like a weight had lifted, like there was this feeling of “Ah!! •That’s• who you are!” Like when they cleaned the Sistine Chapel, when they lifted this layer of grime away, and suddenly there were all these incredible colors.
He grabbed my hand with both of his, looked me straight in the eye, and said with sudden earnestness, “Paul, I agree •completely•. Thank you. Thank you.”
2/
@inthehands that is a beautiful way to put it, thank you
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I happen to know that this is man is quite conservative in a lot of ways. He's steeped in the Foxosphere to a degree that alarms his relatives. I know he was a huge Trump supporter the first time around, and I'm pretty sure he was this time too.
And even stewing in those juices, even •he• is just ready to see the world change for the better for trans people.
I know with all of the horrifying backsliding we've seen these last few years, it feels like there's no hope for trans people. And…yeah, these really are dire, dire times. Dire. It is •horrifying• what's been coming to the political surface. But damnit…beneath the surface, the tectonic plates are moving. Despair, rage, lament, yes…but do not give up hope.
/end
@inthehands the discrepancies between how people express their politics in terms of abstract "issues" and how they behave on a human-to-human level can be really bewildering. but i think a lot of it is just we're a lot less different from each other than each of us is from the ruling class of any political party
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I think I need to share an experience I just had recently.
I was talking with an elder, in his mid-80s. He was showing me pictures, and showed me his wife’s “grandson” — cue photo of a stunningly fashionable young woman, wow does she know how to dress — “except he's trans, he did his trans-…he transitioned…”
ME: Does your grandkid use “she” pronouns now?
HIM: Yes!
ME: So she's your granddaughter now, I think?
HIM: Yes!!
And he switched to using she/her and did not switch back for the rest of the conversation.
There's more…
1/
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I happen to know that this is man is quite conservative in a lot of ways. He's steeped in the Foxosphere to a degree that alarms his relatives. I know he was a huge Trump supporter the first time around, and I'm pretty sure he was this time too.
And even stewing in those juices, even •he• is just ready to see the world change for the better for trans people.
I know with all of the horrifying backsliding we've seen these last few years, it feels like there's no hope for trans people. And…yeah, these really are dire, dire times. Dire. It is •horrifying• what's been coming to the political surface. But damnit…beneath the surface, the tectonic plates are moving. Despair, rage, lament, yes…but do not give up hope.
/end
@inthehands So awesome.
Now if we could get him to generalize a little
To consider other humans in other families... and the effect one's vote has... -
@inthehands the discrepancies between how people express their politics in terms of abstract "issues" and how they behave on a human-to-human level can be really bewildering. but i think a lot of it is just we're a lot less different from each other than each of us is from the ruling class of any political party
not to ruin paul's story, because it's a good one and that's not my intent
but conservatives compartmentalize
they will say black people this, black people that
then they will say a black person they are friendly with is "one of the good ones" and their ugly racism doesn't apply
in this way they preserve their teflon bigotry
i don't know how to attack this. "hypocrite!" is something conservatives are completely immune to. they just go through life like this
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I went out on a limb a bit. I talked about how in the course of teaching college I'd known several students through the length of their transition, before and after — and in every one of those cases, it felt like a weight had lifted, like there was this feeling of “Ah!! •That’s• who you are!” Like when they cleaned the Sistine Chapel, when they lifted this layer of grime away, and suddenly there were all these incredible colors.
He grabbed my hand with both of his, looked me straight in the eye, and said with sudden earnestness, “Paul, I agree •completely•. Thank you. Thank you.”
2/
@inthehands I'm glad he could have that moment
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@inthehands the discrepancies between how people express their politics in terms of abstract "issues" and how they behave on a human-to-human level can be really bewildering. but i think a lot of it is just we're a lot less different from each other than each of us is from the ruling class of any political party
@chrisamaphone @inthehands 25 years ago I worked for a company that did audiovisual for corporate meetings/events. And one of the audio freelancers transitioned, and sent an email to the audio department head letting him know what was up and that she'd understand if the company didn't want to hire her.
The audio department head, who was a raging homophobe who told me once that he voted Republican every election because he didn't want his son to see two men kissing and think that was OK… [1/2] -
@chrisamaphone @inthehands 25 years ago I worked for a company that did audiovisual for corporate meetings/events. And one of the audio freelancers transitioned, and sent an email to the audio department head letting him know what was up and that she'd understand if the company didn't want to hire her.
The audio department head, who was a raging homophobe who told me once that he voted Republican every election because he didn't want his son to see two men kissing and think that was OK… [1/2]@chrisamaphone @inthehands ... that guy sent out an email to the whole audio department that read in part
"I don't understand why she made this decision, but I don't have to. <Deadname> WAS a part of the family and <Newname> IS a part of the family and if you don't want to work with her you can request to be assigned to a different show but we are not going to make HER work around YOUR issues."We are vast; we contain multitudes. And sometime the most unlikely folks do the right thing.
[2/2]
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not to ruin paul's story, because it's a good one and that's not my intent
but conservatives compartmentalize
they will say black people this, black people that
then they will say a black person they are friendly with is "one of the good ones" and their ugly racism doesn't apply
in this way they preserve their teflon bigotry
i don't know how to attack this. "hypocrite!" is something conservatives are completely immune to. they just go through life like this
@benroyce @chrisamaphone @inthehands the way to combat it is a ton of patience and exposure therapy.
My father grew up as the son of a cop in southern Texas. To say he was conservative is an understatement. He then immediately out of high school joined the military and ended up in Desert Storm.
For YEARS my dad has been suspicious of and racist towards anyone who looks even a little middle eastern.
1/ -
I think I need to share an experience I just had recently.
I was talking with an elder, in his mid-80s. He was showing me pictures, and showed me his wife’s “grandson” — cue photo of a stunningly fashionable young woman, wow does she know how to dress — “except he's trans, he did his trans-…he transitioned…”
ME: Does your grandkid use “she” pronouns now?
HIM: Yes!
ME: So she's your granddaughter now, I think?
HIM: Yes!!
And he switched to using she/her and did not switch back for the rest of the conversation.
There's more…
1/
@inthehands I always think of the line from Men in Black "a person is smart but people are dumb scared animals and you know it!"
I've found that with most Republican voters, if you stay away from the big talking points and don't say anything party-specific you can almost always have a productive policy conversation and they'll generally agree with liberal or even "far-left" (by American standards) policy positions. Sometimes it'll be more agree to disagree, but they'll still be far more open to policy that is too liberal for most Democrats to touch than rhetoric would have you believe
Changing the world takes one individual conversation like this at a time. Plant those seeds with enough individuals and maybe we can have a slightly less toxic political world?
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@benroyce @chrisamaphone @inthehands the way to combat it is a ton of patience and exposure therapy.
My father grew up as the son of a cop in southern Texas. To say he was conservative is an understatement. He then immediately out of high school joined the military and ended up in Desert Storm.
For YEARS my dad has been suspicious of and racist towards anyone who looks even a little middle eastern.
1/@benroyce @chrisamaphone @inthehands then he was assigned a family to Deacon for (in Baptist churches each family has a specific Deacon they can go to) that was new to his church. Said family was Iraqi immigrants displaced for supporting the US.
He was, sort of obviously, very uncomfortable around them. But to his credit, he shoved those emotions deep down and treated them like any other family he was assigned.
2/ -
@benroyce @chrisamaphone @inthehands then he was assigned a family to Deacon for (in Baptist churches each family has a specific Deacon they can go to) that was new to his church. Said family was Iraqi immigrants displaced for supporting the US.
He was, sort of obviously, very uncomfortable around them. But to his credit, he shoved those emotions deep down and treated them like any other family he was assigned.
2/@benroyce @chrisamaphone @inthehands
Eventually he had some introspection, realized that he likely had undiagnosed PTSD from his service, which was leading to these feelings. Once he realized that, a lot of that hatred and judgement dissolved, and he's so much better now.
It's obviously different from the trans conversation, but I think most people don't hate naturally, they were made to hate, and the best cure for hate is patience and exposure.
/End -
@benroyce @chrisamaphone @inthehands
Eventually he had some introspection, realized that he likely had undiagnosed PTSD from his service, which was leading to these feelings. Once he realized that, a lot of that hatred and judgement dissolved, and he's so much better now.
It's obviously different from the trans conversation, but I think most people don't hate naturally, they were made to hate, and the best cure for hate is patience and exposure.
/End@DemonHouser @chrisamaphone @inthehands
you reminded me of LBJ's arc
dude was hella racist
and yet it was he who browbeat fellow democrats into getting us the 1964 civil rights act
such a seminal act it triggered all the dixiecrat racists to migrate out of the democratic party to the GOP giving us our reality today
people can change
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not to ruin paul's story, because it's a good one and that's not my intent
but conservatives compartmentalize
they will say black people this, black people that
then they will say a black person they are friendly with is "one of the good ones" and their ugly racism doesn't apply
in this way they preserve their teflon bigotry
i don't know how to attack this. "hypocrite!" is something conservatives are completely immune to. they just go through life like this
That's a good sort of general-sometimes-often kind of principle, but I'm not sure it's the correct analysis in this case.
I know that he went through a whole process of becoming accepting of gay & lesbian folks in general, and that was a real journey for him — but no compartmentalizing on that front now, he’s good across the board.
I suspect that trans acceptance is something he’s come to quicker than some of his peers, and he’d •like• to be accepting but maybe isn’t sure how that’s going to be received. The conversation I recounted, it’s almost like he was asking for my permission to be accepting, and was really relieved when I was cool with that. Not so much compartmentalizing as “coming out as accepting,” if that makes sense.
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That's a good sort of general-sometimes-often kind of principle, but I'm not sure it's the correct analysis in this case.
I know that he went through a whole process of becoming accepting of gay & lesbian folks in general, and that was a real journey for him — but no compartmentalizing on that front now, he’s good across the board.
I suspect that trans acceptance is something he’s come to quicker than some of his peers, and he’d •like• to be accepting but maybe isn’t sure how that’s going to be received. The conversation I recounted, it’s almost like he was asking for my permission to be accepting, and was really relieved when I was cool with that. Not so much compartmentalizing as “coming out as accepting,” if that makes sense.
again, you have an exquisite post, and my intention was not to crap all over it. i was reticent to post but i went ahead anyways because:
yes, people can change. they do
we just need to be aware of certain other classes of behaviors
so an abstraction out from the discussion you sparked. not a diminution of it
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again, you have an exquisite post, and my intention was not to crap all over it. i was reticent to post but i went ahead anyways because:
yes, people can change. they do
we just need to be aware of certain other classes of behaviors
so an abstraction out from the discussion you sparked. not a diminution of it
Understood, and no offense taken. I reply just because people's inner lives are really messy and complicated and hard to guess at, and there's a whole of different reasons for the political contradictions we see in people — some of those reasons very hopeful. I just want to make sure to recognize that.
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Understood, and no offense taken. I reply just because people's inner lives are really messy and complicated and hard to guess at, and there's a whole of different reasons for the political contradictions we see in people — some of those reasons very hopeful. I just want to make sure to recognize that.
if you say so, i'll delete my comment
you have a beautiful inspiring tale
and i come in and do mundane bullshit
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if you say so, i'll delete my comment
you have a beautiful inspiring tale
and i come in and do mundane bullshit
No need to delete! It's an important and valid point. Just required the reply.
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@stevenray @chrisamaphone @inthehands
go to paul's third comment
"I happen to know that this is man is quite conservative in a lot of ways. He's steeped in the Foxosphere to a degree that alarms his relatives. I know he was a huge Trump supporter the first time around, and I'm pretty sure he was this time too."
