CONTEXT
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And when I am saying is the trade-off between one versus the other, has been the product of greenwashing.
Renewables destroy the planet in their manufacture.
And all you or I or the rest of society is doing is continuing to butcher down the planet while we’re being told we are saving it.
This is not an argument of the perfect being the enemy of the good, this is the argument that the alternative is not what it’s been sold as, and the only real solution is reduction
@benroyce @blogdiva @GhostOnTheHalfShell just to note, your take's logical conclusion is nihilism. If humanity didn't exist there wouldn't be any footprint. If the universe didn't exist there wouldn't be any problems. but that's just not how it works.
by all means, reuse, reduce, recycle. But it has been widely disproven that e.g electric cars "are not worth it", or that solar panels have a limited lifespan. That's propaganda from the fossil fuel industry that defeats your own point if anything
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @brad @blogdiva
so go do that
i support your agenda
why must you attack another agenda that is also good?
applaud efforts to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels
*and* work on your agenda
you can do both, because both are good things
positing one as the enemy of the other is a lie
OK, it’s only a lie. If what you’ve been told about renewables is true.. let me emphasize that the companies who were gushing over renewables are the worst polluting most environmentally destructive industries in the world which is the mining sector.
You are going to believe companies that are no different than big oil and no different than big tobacco at face value value.
How well has that traditionally worked out?
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
this is the trap of perfectionism
there is nothing wrong with your argument, but you've decided to make another argument your enemy. even though that argument is a good thing, it is not a perfect thing, so you think you can complain
you can't
is it good we reduce our reliance on fossil fuels?
yes
is it good to reduce resource use, your agenda?
also yes
but why make enemies of these fine goals
applaud both, push both
don't make them enemies. that is a lie
And I will add to this comment that I have placed myself in a situation where I do not drive my car except for maybe once a year out of necessity to visit family during Christmas because the alternatives are not available to me now.
The cheapest most efficient world saving effort is to get rid of cars and to be able to feed ourselves from our regional watersheds. The important thing to do is to change to it, not obsess about EV or solar panels.
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And I will add to this comment that I have placed myself in a situation where I do not drive my car except for maybe once a year out of necessity to visit family during Christmas because the alternatives are not available to me now.
The cheapest most efficient world saving effort is to get rid of cars and to be able to feed ourselves from our regional watersheds. The important thing to do is to change to it, not obsess about EV or solar panels.
Take, for example, hydroelectric power. When you damn a river, it becomes a source of methane production… and in the end, if you cost everything out that hydroelectric power is generating twice as much carbon per kilowatt hour is a freaking cold plant.
Again, I emphasize, if you slap a label of green on hydroelectric because it doesn’t burn fossil fuels, but ends up doing more damage what exactly have we gained?
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And I will add to this comment that I have placed myself in a situation where I do not drive my car except for maybe once a year out of necessity to visit family during Christmas because the alternatives are not available to me now.
The cheapest most efficient world saving effort is to get rid of cars and to be able to feed ourselves from our regional watersheds. The important thing to do is to change to it, not obsess about EV or solar panels.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva Providing one is of reasonable fitness, a simple bicycle gives one a great degree of freedom. My mum lives 3 miles away, and I can get there in 10 minutes.
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@benroyce @blogdiva @GhostOnTheHalfShell just to note, your take's logical conclusion is nihilism. If humanity didn't exist there wouldn't be any footprint. If the universe didn't exist there wouldn't be any problems. but that's just not how it works.
by all means, reuse, reduce, recycle. But it has been widely disproven that e.g electric cars "are not worth it", or that solar panels have a limited lifespan. That's propaganda from the fossil fuel industry that defeats your own point if anything
Oh right because the mining industry, and the solar panel manufacturing industry is being completely honest with you.
Think about the supply chain necessary to build any piece of technology and understand that the dirtiest most criminal economic sectors are telling you that everything is really green.
Who’s worse big oil or big mining?
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Take, for example, hydroelectric power. When you damn a river, it becomes a source of methane production… and in the end, if you cost everything out that hydroelectric power is generating twice as much carbon per kilowatt hour is a freaking cold plant.
Again, I emphasize, if you slap a label of green on hydroelectric because it doesn’t burn fossil fuels, but ends up doing more damage what exactly have we gained?
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
You seemed to have taken my point about perfectionism: falsely asserting it as the enemy of good, and completely ignored it
You need to work on this problem of yours
I will go after you further to say that "hydroelectric is as bad (worse?!) as fossil fuels" is a stupid fucking lie
Do you work for fossil fuel companies?
If not, pause and think how you sound
And note the real value of this moronic "perfect is the enemy of good" stupid bullshit you are shilling
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva Providing one is of reasonable fitness, a simple bicycle gives one a great degree of freedom. My mum lives 3 miles away, and I can get there in 10 minutes.
Yup. Ask any Dutch. I am so constructed my life at this point where everything can be had on foot and most anything else that I really need to get out can be had by bus or train.
But I make use of the latter two very rarely. A walkable lifestyle plus availability of locally grown food cuts 90% of all the resources used in the maintenance construction of transport.
I argue the most effective use of money and resources is to make that available to everyone
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
You seemed to have taken my point about perfectionism: falsely asserting it as the enemy of good, and completely ignored it
You need to work on this problem of yours
I will go after you further to say that "hydroelectric is as bad (worse?!) as fossil fuels" is a stupid fucking lie
Do you work for fossil fuel companies?
If not, pause and think how you sound
And note the real value of this moronic "perfect is the enemy of good" stupid bullshit you are shilling
“ According to Ana Simeon, writing for the Watershed Sentinel, “Québec’s largest reservoir, Caniapiscau, has a carbon footprint double that of coal power: about 2,200g CO2-equivalent per kilowatt/hour.” Dams: twice as bad as coal when you calculate total costs?”
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“Steven Hawley, an author of a book on dams, wrote that, “International studies of dams and their reservoirs confirmed in dozens of peer-reviewed research papers that dams and reservoirs are net contributors to climate change.” This “Green” Transition stuff is lies built on top of lies.”
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Yup. Ask any Dutch. I am so constructed my life at this point where everything can be had on foot and most anything else that I really need to get out can be had by bus or train.
But I make use of the latter two very rarely. A walkable lifestyle plus availability of locally grown food cuts 90% of all the resources used in the maintenance construction of transport.
I argue the most effective use of money and resources is to make that available to everyone
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva I cycle so much, my body has perfectly fused with the bicycle, forming one superior, harmonious machine. I may add I haven't taken a holiday in over 30 years, haven't owned a car in about that long, I compost all compostables, do not throw away shoes until they fall apart, replace them with charity shop ones, I shower roughly once every 3 days, I recycle all plastic, paper, glass etc.
Of course, one must use resources, but one can be thrifty about it. -
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
You seemed to have taken my point about perfectionism: falsely asserting it as the enemy of good, and completely ignored it
You need to work on this problem of yours
I will go after you further to say that "hydroelectric is as bad (worse?!) as fossil fuels" is a stupid fucking lie
Do you work for fossil fuel companies?
If not, pause and think how you sound
And note the real value of this moronic "perfect is the enemy of good" stupid bullshit you are shilling
@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva I used to work in the oil industry, I know is bad but unfortunately necessary for certain fields. Sustainable and renewable energy is better for other fields though. One of several examples were unfortunately can't be substituted is global logistics. Having all the citizens with EV and keep big ships with containers is not the final solution.
At least reducing a bit of carbon emissions though
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
You seemed to have taken my point about perfectionism: falsely asserting it as the enemy of good, and completely ignored it
You need to work on this problem of yours
I will go after you further to say that "hydroelectric is as bad (worse?!) as fossil fuels" is a stupid fucking lie
Do you work for fossil fuel companies?
If not, pause and think how you sound
And note the real value of this moronic "perfect is the enemy of good" stupid bullshit you are shilling
I would like to suggest that the ad hominem is out of place.
That reservoir of water produces high amounts of methane which you probably know is 28 times more powerful, a greenhouse gas than CO2. There are many other consequences to damming a river that are destructive to ecological function, and ultimately to the carbon cycle itself.
There is no cheap out and the chief point of damming up water and exporting it to someplace else is to benefit industry
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Oh right because the mining industry, and the solar panel manufacturing industry is being completely honest with you.
Think about the supply chain necessary to build any piece of technology and understand that the dirtiest most criminal economic sectors are telling you that everything is really green.
Who’s worse big oil or big mining?
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva Think about the supply chain to breathe. Think about the supply chain for 10 billion people to exist.
The logical conclusion to your take is Nihilism.
That's all I'm going to say on this subject because I've talked about this and I've been down that road and I know exactly where it leads.
(not to be mean or condescending, I just had this conversation one too many times it feels like)
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And I will add to this comment that I have placed myself in a situation where I do not drive my car except for maybe once a year out of necessity to visit family during Christmas because the alternatives are not available to me now.
The cheapest most efficient world saving effort is to get rid of cars and to be able to feed ourselves from our regional watersheds. The important thing to do is to change to it, not obsess about EV or solar panels.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva@mastodon.social
Good for you. Now if only we lived in an ideal world where cars are not the only way of transport for many people 🤨
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Oh right because the mining industry, and the solar panel manufacturing industry is being completely honest with you.
Think about the supply chain necessary to build any piece of technology and understand that the dirtiest most criminal economic sectors are telling you that everything is really green.
Who’s worse big oil or big mining?
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva
you're a toxic idealist
a whiny useless perfectionist
of course mining for solar and batteries sucks
*and* a smaller footprint than fossil fuel extraction
*and* far better for climate change
you fucking purists are an enemy of the real left as bad as MAGA
ALL YOU GET IN THIS WORLD IS BETTER
PERFECT IS NOT ON THE MENU
are you shilling for the fossil fuel industry or are you just that fucking stupid and blind?
stop following me, you stupid asshole
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And I will add to this comment that I have placed myself in a situation where I do not drive my car except for maybe once a year out of necessity to visit family during Christmas because the alternatives are not available to me now.
The cheapest most efficient world saving effort is to get rid of cars and to be able to feed ourselves from our regional watersheds. The important thing to do is to change to it, not obsess about EV or solar panels.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell I also cringe at greenwashing, and roll my eyes at increased renewable percentages. Show me the absolute numbers (spoiler: fossil fuel emissions are still going up, even or especially in China--that's how they're powering the electric grid).
BUT it is not feasible to take cars away in the US unless you put in alternatives like public transportation. That's not happening right now. For those who must drive, an EV is a good solution IF you can afford it.
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I would like to suggest that the ad hominem is out of place.
That reservoir of water produces high amounts of methane which you probably know is 28 times more powerful, a greenhouse gas than CO2. There are many other consequences to damming a river that are destructive to ecological function, and ultimately to the carbon cycle itself.
There is no cheap out and the chief point of damming up water and exporting it to someplace else is to benefit industry
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
unread
uninterested
another whiny toxic idealist
fighting the real left in service of the fossil fuel industry
and too fucking stupid to see it
stop following me and fuck you, you pathetic loser
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@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva I used to work in the oil industry, I know is bad but unfortunately necessary for certain fields. Sustainable and renewable energy is better for other fields though. One of several examples were unfortunately can't be substituted is global logistics. Having all the citizens with EV and keep big ships with containers is not the final solution.
At least reducing a bit of carbon emissions though
@epistomai @benroyce @blogdiva
I think you would agree with the assertion that the cheapest most efficient and most ecological energy is the stuff we never dig out of the ground or burn.
Ultimately, the more we live locally the more we never rely on those global supply chains. You have to look at the supply chain and all the ecological consequences, including GHG and ecocide as a consequence
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva I cycle so much, my body has perfectly fused with the bicycle, forming one superior, harmonious machine. I may add I haven't taken a holiday in over 30 years, haven't owned a car in about that long, I compost all compostables, do not throw away shoes until they fall apart, replace them with charity shop ones, I shower roughly once every 3 days, I recycle all plastic, paper, glass etc.
Of course, one must use resources, but one can be thrifty about it.@Morgawr @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
but you support transitioning to EV from fossil fuels right?
because you know that's a good thing, right?
you're not going to oppose it because in the real world, rather than the castles in the sky of the mind of the toxic perfectionist, you know that that only helps the fossil fuel industry, right?
because you're not stupid like that, like our dear friend GhostOnTheHalfShell
