Student: “So Elon Musk is a trillionaire?”Me: “Yup.”Student: “How did he get that much money?”Me: “Well, he doesn’t really have a trillion dollars cash.
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@MaddieM4
What make oppositional defiant damning? I'm only shallowly aware of it, and I've not heard criticism of it.@dpflug It's not well known. I could maybe talk about it with more nuance under better conditions, but I happened to just wake up in the middle a medical incident *and* ODD doesn't deserve nuance, so I think flippant should be fine.
Imagine there was a diagnosis in the DSM5 that pathologized not accepting authority, especially the authority of psychiatrists. If you refuse any part of the treatment regimen they demand, it's further proof that you're sick and need intervention. Imagine further that black people were diagnosed at a much higher rate than white people. Okay stop imagining, that's ODD.
I have no personal skin in this specific game. I've never been diagnosed with something like that, and with my complexion, it's unlikely. But as long as it's on the books, it can be selectively enforced, and if that sounds like a tiny part of a big picture that psychiatry is an arm of the carceral state and we're just used to downplaying the cop-adjacency of the industry, you're on the money.
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It doesn't make sense to compare the share prices for different companies. Any company can have whatever share price it wants by issuing or buying back shares, by having stock splits or (whatever the opposite is called, I've forgotten). You need to compare the market capitalisation (share price multiplied by the number of shares). And that makes it look even more ludicrous.
Tesla's market cap is $1.506 T.
BMW's is €43 B (around $50 B).
Tesla's market valuation is around 30x that of BMW (not the 5x that the stock prices alone would imply).
A market valuation for a company is typically a combination of how well it's doing at the moment (profit) and how much people expect it to grow. BMW is probably a relatively stable company, but the price for Tesla is assuming that it will grow by a factor of about 300. Tesla sold a bit under 2M cars last year (including some slightly dodgy accounting with Musk's companies selling to each other). That's close to 2% of total car sales. So a factor of 50x growth would mean that they have 100% of the total addressable market. More than that requires the market expanding significantly or them moving into completely new markets.
This is why Tesla is referred to as a 'meme stock': the valuation has absolutely nothing to do with how much money the company is expected to be and 100% to do with the supply of greater fools.
@david_chisnall @ananas @zeenix @nswigger To be precise, only the circulating or outstanding shares should be considered. When companies do stock buybacks (instead of paying taxable dividends), they're effectively reducing the outstanding shares to increase the stock price. In sum, the market value should remain the same though.
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@nswigger *does* gen z hate capitalism? they're big stock buyers.
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@pixelschubsi @nswigger careful. you might see the good in it after all.
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@pixelschubsi @nswigger careful. you might see the good in it after all.
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@pixelschubsi @nswigger empathy is no warden against insight
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Student: “So Elon Musk is a trillionaire?”
Me: “Yup.”
Student: “How did he get that much money?”
Me: “Well, he doesn’t really have a trillion dollars cash. He just owns a lot of stock in companies that are valued at a trillion dollars.”
Student: “So those companies make huge profits?”
Me: “Oh gosh no. They all lose billions of dollars a year. All of them. Huge losses.”The Economist headline: “Gen Z Mysteriously Hates Capitalism and No One Can Figure Out Why.”
@nswigger well, they're not exactly going to run with "Capitalism: how we help run the biggest scam in the world" are they?
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@nswigger gen y doesn't particularly like it either. Would I be Gen Y? I was created in 1990...
@dodecahedron @nswigger that's a millennial.
You destroyed capitalism by eating avocados and not having pensions.
I'm GenX. We destroyed capitalism by genuinely not giving a shit and doing way too many drugs.
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@pixelschubsi @nswigger careful. you might see the good in it after all.
@lritter @pixelschubsi @nswigger Karl Marx was a big stock buyer so I think we're good here
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@lritter @pixelschubsi @nswigger Karl Marx was a big stock buyer so I think we're good here
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@MaddieM4 @huntingdon @nswigger I still remember taking Econ 101 in college and being shocked by 1) how easy it was and 2) how obviously fake (disconnected from reality) the models were.
@lauerhahn @MaddieM4 @huntingdon @nswigger the (classical) economists have issues being critical of their hypothesis and treat toy models as gospel.
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@dodecahedron @nswigger that's a millennial.
You destroyed capitalism by eating avocados and not having pensions.
I'm GenX. We destroyed capitalism by genuinely not giving a shit and doing way too many drugs.
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Student: “So Elon Musk is a trillionaire?”
Me: “Yup.”
Student: “How did he get that much money?”
Me: “Well, he doesn’t really have a trillion dollars cash. He just owns a lot of stock in companies that are valued at a trillion dollars.”
Student: “So those companies make huge profits?”
Me: “Oh gosh no. They all lose billions of dollars a year. All of them. Huge losses.”The Economist headline: “Gen Z Mysteriously Hates Capitalism and No One Can Figure Out Why.”
@nswigger not just Gen Z.
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@nswigger Not to let facts get in the way of your lols but in 6/2020 Tesla became profitable after four consecutive quarters in the black.
Yes, Elon is an asshole and a huge disappointment but there would be no US EV industry without the pressure #tesla put on legacy manufacturers
I know I know buses and bicycles, I use them frequently but the majority of Americans never will but are more likely to drive an #ev
@nswigger also, #tesla existed before Elon and Elon was rich before Tesla. Why no angst against #paypal ? #petertheil , evil personified, got rich from PayPal too.
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Student: “So Elon Musk is a trillionaire?”
Me: “Yup.”
Student: “How did he get that much money?”
Me: “Well, he doesn’t really have a trillion dollars cash. He just owns a lot of stock in companies that are valued at a trillion dollars.”
Student: “So those companies make huge profits?”
Me: “Oh gosh no. They all lose billions of dollars a year. All of them. Huge losses.”The Economist headline: “Gen Z Mysteriously Hates Capitalism and No One Can Figure Out Why.”
@Nathaniel Swigger It’s not true, but it could be!
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#^https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/gross-profit
#^https://spacexchart.com/starlink -
@nswigger not disagreeing with the overall message here but last I checked at least Tesla is very profitable: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/gross-profit
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@cristianyxen That doesn't explain why Tesla was a lot more profitable before Cybertruck was a reality. Please keep in mind that I was not objecting to the general point of the toot. Just that one doesn't need to lie or exaggerate to make a point that can be easily made through truth alone.
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It doesn't make sense to compare the share prices for different companies. Any company can have whatever share price it wants by issuing or buying back shares, by having stock splits or (whatever the opposite is called, I've forgotten). You need to compare the market capitalisation (share price multiplied by the number of shares). And that makes it look even more ludicrous.
Tesla's market cap is $1.506 T.
BMW's is €43 B (around $50 B).
Tesla's market valuation is around 30x that of BMW (not the 5x that the stock prices alone would imply).
A market valuation for a company is typically a combination of how well it's doing at the moment (profit) and how much people expect it to grow. BMW is probably a relatively stable company, but the price for Tesla is assuming that it will grow by a factor of about 300. Tesla sold a bit under 2M cars last year (including some slightly dodgy accounting with Musk's companies selling to each other). That's close to 2% of total car sales. So a factor of 50x growth would mean that they have 100% of the total addressable market. More than that requires the market expanding significantly or them moving into completely new markets.
This is why Tesla is referred to as a 'meme stock': the valuation has absolutely nothing to do with how much money the company is expected to be and 100% to do with the supply of greater fools.
@david_chisnall @toxi @ananas @zeenix @nswigger I posted this elsewhere. Bonkers.
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Student: “So Elon Musk is a trillionaire?”
Me: “Yup.”
Student: “How did he get that much money?”
Me: “Well, he doesn’t really have a trillion dollars cash. He just owns a lot of stock in companies that are valued at a trillion dollars.”
Student: “So those companies make huge profits?”
Me: “Oh gosh no. They all lose billions of dollars a year. All of them. Huge losses.”The Economist headline: “Gen Z Mysteriously Hates Capitalism and No One Can Figure Out Why.”
@nswigger it’s weird how Scrooge McDuck (and even his „evil“ competitors like John Rockerduck and Flintheart Glomgold) are less horrible people than our actual crop of billionaires
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@huntingdon @nswigger as I've gotten older and been exposed to more of the world, it's become impossible to see economists as anything more than bootlickers for whichever powerful status quo needs a pseudoscientific veneer of validation this decade (the concept of "revealed preferences" is about as damning for their field as "oppositional defiant disorder" is for psychiatry).
Unfortunately, you can't really say that kind of thing at an average cocktail party without sounding like one of those people who drinks their own urine and thinks 5G puts a chip in your head. But we're slowly getting to a place of deserved skepticism for fields that have long played fast and loose with academic rigor.
Anyways, the Economist is a hilarious example of exactly the material you'd expect, from people who would name themselves "the Economist" without a hint of self-awareness or irony.
I say it out loud, publicly traded corporations eventually do evil. Backup question: ask them for examples of benign traded corps or ones thst advance welfare of citizens.
Its the "traded" distinction that matters
I'm also one of very few people I know who keep a local hord of mp3's, and other media files, still updated.
