It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
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... or offer your selfhosted services to others and prepare being accused of ... well probably trying to spy on them.
@gustl @kybernetes77 @plexus I think that might be preferable to everybody ignoring it. It means somebody noticed.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
This applies to non-profits and volunteer work in other fields, too.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
Sad to say, but this has been going on for ages. Way back in the Before Times, I used to do a little bit of ray-tracing with POV-Ray. I ran across something on Usenet, I think that they were going to release a new version that was a major upgrade Real Soon Now, and it was going to be available on Genie. And they were going to have the source code available too!
So I got a Genie subscription, got the new POV-Ray, did stupid things because I didn't understand, and sometimes got frustrated. My C knowledge at the time was pretty much non-existent.
So I went to the Genie forums to see if there were any discussions about how to do ""X", or anything neat I could try at home.
Sadly, there was very little, if any. Nearly every message was someone bitching about how it did "X" improperly, how "Y" was missing, and "Z" was stupid.
That blew my mind. IT'S FREE! THEY GAVE US THE SOURCE CODE! FIX IT AND CHANGE IT!
It got to the point where the POV-Ray team basically said something like "Peace out. We'll still be providing files, but we don't want to talk to you anymore." At least that's how I remember it. That was 30 years ago or so, parts of it are fuzzy now.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus There are people that do, and people who talk. People who act, and people who react. Just be the former. Why mar what you've done by responding to the criticism of those that haven't done anything? The doing is already the talking. And if doing the thing attracts naysayers, then that's just the work being done.
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@xenophyte @crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling
She was Genocide Joe's accomplice. Her opponent was thief and a liar. It was a Hobson's choice, even worse than the usual BS we are told is "democracy".
@LevZadov @crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling
Although n=2 is a small sample, both participants confirmed the initial thesis.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus Everything you've written here is spot on.
My feel is that they feel challenged in themselves that someone else is doing something good and they are not (whether or not that's actually true - it may just be overzealous self-criticism on their part) so they feel a need to diminish you to make that feeling go away: "See, you're not so superior after all." But it's very destructive and the more beneficial response for everyone involved is to say "This makes me feel something uncomfortable about myself. What can I learn from that?"
(None of this theory about the why changes that the pattern you describe is damaging and wrong, it's just the only way I've been able to make sense of it for myself.)
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@plexus
A friend of my husband likes to reply to these kinds of criticisms with “Thank you for volunteering.”The ones who are serious will, the others will usually shut up. Repeat as necessary.
@pomegranate_stew @plexus ^^ This. Responding to "spectator syndrome" with kindness and encouragement to get involved can sometimes be successful. It's gently putting the spectator on the spot to make a decision about themselves. It has worked for me in volunteering roles and as a parent and co-worker.
Be the change you want to see in the world (or go away!)
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus those critiques are usually shallow and worthy of a dry acknowledgement at best, or to be ignored in most cases. Whatever their motivation, they tend to be emotive, reactive takes often born out of lack of experience and totally disconnected from what the work is trying to achieve and the context it’s in. It’s hard to give a good critique—but those people have often not accomplished much, or critiqued intelligently either.
They can strike the heart of the person doing the work if they are not 100% confident in what their work is meant to do, and for whom. If one also has impostor syndrome, this kind of feedback can be a death knell for their energy and enthusiasm.
In big companies, if you have “well this isn’t perfect” type feedback you get the an immediate taste of the medicine: you’re put in charge of the next project so you can feel the heat of responsibility and expectation yourself. More communities could probably use this form of delegation if the feedback actually comes from someone they care about or whose opinion they respect.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus I saw that pattern in environmental activism too
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus yeah it's crappy when people do that. One of the nice things I've experienced which counters the behaviour I've seen work at my games club, which is sort-of anarchist, is responding with with DIY. If someone is critical of a process or an event, the answer is often, "sounds good, you should go do it yourself." In the FOSS world you can suggest forking it, offering advice from what you learned doing it the way they disapprove of, etc. Most people shut up at that point. Some actual help.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus I have no idea what you're talking about.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus The power is with the people who are at least trying https://youtu.be/LIPepvcUGMc?si=SoB-TZ0HHl5IwjGR&t=70
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus well said, thank you.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus Yep.
I noticed this also.
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