I'm talking about all of the misogyny crap today because folks keep speaking for me and saying I'm one of Fedi's big boosters.
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I'm talking about all of the misogyny crap today because folks keep speaking for me and saying I'm one of Fedi's big boosters.
It's true, I do prefer this place to corporate driven social media. But I want to be abundantly clear, I don't feel welcome here. Not really.
I get garbage sent my way that would give you therapy bills. And largely, as a quirk of decentralization, most of you won't ever see it.
Fedi is like being gaslit, every time I use it. And I need to flipping say that.
@vkc for whatever it's worth, I want you to feel welcome here. I get that the shitheads are louder and more active, though. By no means am I telling you that you must stay. I just want to be a voice in opposition to the people who make you feel unwelcome. Thanks for the time you've given. You've been appreciated.
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@vkc I appreciate you. You're welcome here.
I feel that moderation tools on Fedi is lacking. There should be a way for smaller instances to follow the moderation decisions of larger, more well-moderated instances. Maybe in the form of a community blocked users and instances list that updates in real time, and instances can choose to follow that 100%, or apply whitelists and blacklists to it.
Maybe multiple block lists, like we do with ad blocking.
@nthelt @vkc there is a working way!
some form of community blocklists - well, they are 'shared blocklists' but they contain also exchange between some of the well moderated instances - see https://codeberg.org/nev/awesome-fediadmin/#basic-blocklists
some good resources also from @iftas at https://about.iftas.org/library/denylist-resources/
some instances publish their blocklists in raw, importable, form.
mastodon allows importing whole blocklists (but not automatically)
#GoToSocial allows subscribing to any blocklist on the internet and it will update in short intervals as they change.
GoToSocial also has a very fine-grained control if a post can be commented on, or boosted - including approvable requests to do so.
(btw, also some GTS devs block mastodon.social on their own instances because of "not good" moderation on that huge instance)
is it obvious i'm using gts?
also, I think terms "blacklisting" and "whitelisting" is not appropriate to use. most use terms such as blocklist and denylist.
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@Bredroll @vkc @sashin
So black people tried / managed to create some because they get the shit fast and violent like really violent. I mean other people of color too but black people , especially black queers and black women spearheaded that.They got harassed many many times over this.
Eg the bad place, but even the hashtag fediblock exists because they had to fight back, ...
Some people still continue to maintain some.
Some people left over that.
Some people left and came back.AND the devs of most fediverse software actively préfèred working on other stuff than the features they asked for for their safety.
( Trying to remember the names I can think of Ro / at aroh and a Caribbean MarciaX I think who really led
not sure , seyrin and oliphant also who proposed stuff there was many times this discussion, I think ) And yes part of it is that choosing an instance is choosing a moderation, but also the fact that instances safe for black people are harassed to the point of closing ( happened I saw it happen twice probably happened more ) , the fact that people are saying 'you should be fine with this couple of instances who care like it's not building fucking virtual ghettos to harass people out everywhere except there but also victim blaming' or plenty of other stuff. There needs to be a culture shift to not let the mysoginy , general racism, antiblackness and very specifically mysoginoir fly, there needs to be campaigns for actually paying the instances that do good moderation.
Because until people start acting generally like 'you see something you says something' instead of coddling piece of shits abusers. And until thats the culture going to continue. And actively looking for the abuse sometimes to protect their neighbors on those internet streets. It's going to continue.
Also 2 Pb : people recreating accounts ( how many times have I see a post on fediblock 'hey you remember this harasser, well they created another account with one letter changed into a number now that everyone has blocked them) - don't really know how to solve this one, when you block someone they can still see your public posts because of how the federation works and how it's open to the whole internet. That one I think there should be something developed in between public / shadowed public posts and people who follow you posts because that enables stalkers and harassers big time. And to fix this problem has been asked for 10 years by now.
Did I mention black people have been shouting into the void for the last 10 years from what I gathered ( I am here since 2022 but fediblock happened 2016 or 2017 because of harassment campaigns) ?
@Nershelam @vkc @sashin its a complex problem , the bad actors can often simply be multiple automated accounts, or disposable accounts. perhaps a system where new or long-term inactive accounts are rate limited. the real problems kick in when someone manages to figure out how to maliciously use a blocking system
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What I've shared today is just *annoying*. It isn't the level of malevolence that I've seen.
I've had stuff sent my way that I have nightmares about. I won't share that crap. But annoying stuff? I'm not holding that back anymore- you-all are getting called out.
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@Nershelam @vkc @sashin its a complex problem , the bad actors can often simply be multiple automated accounts, or disposable accounts. perhaps a system where new or long-term inactive accounts are rate limited. the real problems kick in when someone manages to figure out how to maliciously use a blocking system
@Bredroll
Also I forgot, was asked since YEARS to have the option to disable commenting from people who don't follow you.
Never done.
Because the devs do not really value safety.And that's part of the problem.
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I'm talking about all of the misogyny crap today because folks keep speaking for me and saying I'm one of Fedi's big boosters.
It's true, I do prefer this place to corporate driven social media. But I want to be abundantly clear, I don't feel welcome here. Not really.
I get garbage sent my way that would give you therapy bills. And largely, as a quirk of decentralization, most of you won't ever see it.
Fedi is like being gaslit, every time I use it. And I need to flipping say that.
@vkc the issue if that you have your own server, sadly dozen of server are unmaintained, or hosted by morront mysoginistic ... so if you don't defederate them you are toast.
I have both the hardware and the knowledge to run my own server but i won't as i don't have time to do the defederation / moderation.
maybe ask @jerry if he can (kindly) give you an easy to use list of server to defederate so they cannot annoy you anymore ?
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@vkc the issue if that you have your own server, sadly dozen of server are unmaintained, or hosted by morront mysoginistic ... so if you don't defederate them you are toast.
I have both the hardware and the knowledge to run my own server but i won't as i don't have time to do the defederation / moderation.
maybe ask @jerry if he can (kindly) give you an easy to use list of server to defederate so they cannot annoy you anymore ?
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@vkc @jerry yeah that is true, it's one of the reason (if i remove the fact i don't want to talk in the name of my company) that i did not reveal my company name (that would give mine easily)
i would be trown to tousand of follower in days, but i would be much more visible to those creep.
but strangely i've found out that it happen much more often on certain people than other (at the same level of public exposure) i wonder why.
but if you find a way we can help you don't hesitate
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I'm talking about all of the misogyny crap today because folks keep speaking for me and saying I'm one of Fedi's big boosters.
It's true, I do prefer this place to corporate driven social media. But I want to be abundantly clear, I don't feel welcome here. Not really.
I get garbage sent my way that would give you therapy bills. And largely, as a quirk of decentralization, most of you won't ever see it.
Fedi is like being gaslit, every time I use it. And I need to flipping say that.
I don't know how many peeps you need following you to make you understand that you are welcome HERE on Mastodon. Point of fact, I am now following you. Cheers.
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What I've shared today is just *annoying*. It isn't the level of malevolence that I've seen.
I've had stuff sent my way that I have nightmares about. I won't share that crap. But annoying stuff? I'm not holding that back anymore- you-all are getting called out.
@vkc how this disturbing content reached you? I'm asking because I felt worried and want to shield myself from this kind of stuff.
I confess I have a very idyllic idea of the fedi and knowing about your experience saddens me. However the points you raised about mysoginy, low women presence in fedi and the problem of decentralization in dealing with toxic behaviour are deeply interesting and got me alert.
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@vkc wow, posting that got me followed by someone from a "skinhead" instance. That's an immediate instance block from me.
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I'm talking about all of the misogyny crap today because folks keep speaking for me and saying I'm one of Fedi's big boosters.
It's true, I do prefer this place to corporate driven social media. But I want to be abundantly clear, I don't feel welcome here. Not really.
I get garbage sent my way that would give you therapy bills. And largely, as a quirk of decentralization, most of you won't ever see it.
Fedi is like being gaslit, every time I use it. And I need to flipping say that.
Yeah, I feel that, I've definitely touched up against some pretty insane parts of the Fediverse. Honestly it's kind of difficult to get an overview sense of the general vibe of the place because of how odd and messy federation (and defederation) works.
Everything will be smooth sailing for the most part and then you run into these people with these crazy groups of people following them around who will target you for some percieved slight, and then just as quick you never see them again.
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Yeah, I feel that, I've definitely touched up against some pretty insane parts of the Fediverse. Honestly it's kind of difficult to get an overview sense of the general vibe of the place because of how odd and messy federation (and defederation) works.
Everything will be smooth sailing for the most part and then you run into these people with these crazy groups of people following them around who will target you for some percieved slight, and then just as quick you never see them again.
@contrasocial I think a big problem is that folks see "Fediverse" as "big Mastodon instances" and not all of the little actors out there who can ruin a day with hate speech, terrifying images, etc. A big part of that is the (often great) job of moderation, where dark corners are quickly cut off, but not from everyone.
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@vkc hey, thank you for posting here, I rediscovered your channel because of your Mastodon posts.
For me the moderation is a big reason to be on a managed instance
Question I had but reading your other comments suggests the answer ;D :
One thing I wondered, did your mastodon experience change when you moved from a moderated instance to your own?@shadowwwind
Managed instances aren't enough. They have the benefit of pre-blocking the awful servers, but the truly vile will open burner accounts on "too big to block" instances to harass their targets.We need software with better safety features.
The other way you can go, ofc, is blocking the big instances, but that's not helpful for anyone trying for any sort of reach.
@vkc -
@vkc yeah there's a lot of fringe folks here. Both in the good sense and the bad sense. The Internet is a public space, and that means we get to experience all the stuff that comes with that.
I am mostly grateful even for the weird ugly sad parts, because that's how you know it's real.
@SomeVeganCheeseIsOk
When someone is expressing that they've been wronged and harmed, it is not okay to respond with celebration that it is so.Walking down the street isn't any less real because you weren't stabbed.
@vkc -
@vkc how this disturbing content reached you? I'm asking because I felt worried and want to shield myself from this kind of stuff.
I confess I have a very idyllic idea of the fedi and knowing about your experience saddens me. However the points you raised about mysoginy, low women presence in fedi and the problem of decentralization in dealing with toxic behaviour are deeply interesting and got me alert.
@vinnie
I'm not @vkc and I haven't had the same experiences (white male privilege) so I can't speak for her. Still, she's probably tired of explaining it, so here goes:A flood of replies ranging from annoying to sadistic. Often from new accounts or new instances, possibly created just to harass her. Replies don't spread to instances where no one follows the poster, so you don't see it, but she will (because she's @mentioned). See my latest boosts on what has (not) been done to stop this.
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When people say "Veronica loves the Fediverse", they remove my agency from this place. I'm a character. They're the narrator. I don't like that.
I think for a lot of folks, Fedi is sweet. It's quiet. It's slow. But for many, many, many of us, it's this slow-rolling insanity machine where you see the WORST THINGS and nobody else does.
And to be frank and clear, I'm just talking about things from my white US perspective. I don't even get the worst of it, and I recognize that.
where you see the WORST THINGS and nobody else does
@vkc isn't it good though? I mean not the terrible things you get to see of course but that they don't get automatically amplified like they do on centralized social media. This puts people in more control. If a troll sends me some crap from some dark corner of Fedi my audience won't even see it unless I choose to do so by reacting to it. I like it that way. On big socials comments of larger and more popular posts as troll and spam fests. Here spam is almost non-existent precisely because of this.
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