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  2. Ikke-kategoriseret
  3. Time to make 2025 updates to my annual “opinions about solar” thread.

Time to make 2025 updates to my annual “opinions about solar” thread.

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  • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

    17. Small-scale batteries are a thing too, even though the economics don’t always make much sense. 2024 battery attachment rates – proportion of residential PV buyers who get a battery too – were ~ 80% in Germany and Italy, ~ 50% in Switzerland, UK and California.

    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
    solar_chase@mastodon.green
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #17

    18. It is very difficult for installers and financiers to become large and long-term profitable in the residential solar and storage market. Margins are thin and there are diseconomies of scale.

    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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    • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

      18. It is very difficult for installers and financiers to become large and long-term profitable in the residential solar and storage market. Margins are thin and there are diseconomies of scale.

      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
      solar_chase@mastodon.green
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #18

      19. In general this is a problem for solar, both for manufacturing and downstream: a distributed industry with low barriers to entry, and therefore few large firms, has little lobbying power. Industry associations work against this to represent the interests of renewables in politics, against those of more naturally consolidated industries like fossil fuels, but they do have a structural disadvantage.

      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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      • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

        19. In general this is a problem for solar, both for manufacturing and downstream: a distributed industry with low barriers to entry, and therefore few large firms, has little lobbying power. Industry associations work against this to represent the interests of renewables in politics, against those of more naturally consolidated industries like fossil fuels, but they do have a structural disadvantage.

        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
        solar_chase@mastodon.green
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #19

        20. There is no way we can build a big enough battery to shift energy from summer to winter. The economics of battery storage are nearly impossible at one cycle a year.

        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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        • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

          20. There is no way we can build a big enough battery to shift energy from summer to winter. The economics of battery storage are nearly impossible at one cycle a year.

          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
          solar_chase@mastodon.green
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #20

          21. Everyone is defining 'long-duration storage technology' wrong. It's not about 6 or 8 hours — you can do that with lithium-ion and probably will — it's about having the capex to add more GWh of capacity decoupled from the capex of adding more GW.

          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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          • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

            21. Everyone is defining 'long-duration storage technology' wrong. It's not about 6 or 8 hours — you can do that with lithium-ion and probably will — it's about having the capex to add more GWh of capacity decoupled from the capex of adding more GW.

            solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
            solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
            solar_chase@mastodon.green
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #21

            22. Examples of real long-duration storage technologies are pumped hydro (reservoir size is decoupled from turbine capacity), or where the storage medium is big tanks of molten salt, or hot rocks. But all of these do still cost a lot of money if they are only cycling once per year.

            solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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            • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

              22. Examples of real long-duration storage technologies are pumped hydro (reservoir size is decoupled from turbine capacity), or where the storage medium is big tanks of molten salt, or hot rocks. But all of these do still cost a lot of money if they are only cycling once per year.

              solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
              solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
              solar_chase@mastodon.green
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #22

              23. Lithium-ion will probably continue to be the dominant battery technology. High prices for lithium in 2022-2023 drove interest in sodium-ion, and there are still products coming out, but new lithium production capacity has brought prices back down and so the impetus to switch has been reduced.

              (The cure for high prices was, it turned out, high prices.)

              solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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              • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                23. Lithium-ion will probably continue to be the dominant battery technology. High prices for lithium in 2022-2023 drove interest in sodium-ion, and there are still products coming out, but new lithium production capacity has brought prices back down and so the impetus to switch has been reduced.

                (The cure for high prices was, it turned out, high prices.)

                solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                solar_chase@mastodon.green
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #23

                24. We oughtta be building more wind generation capacity. Seriously, solar will get built anyway, but wind needs some help, and wind blows in the dark and in the winter. It doesn’t help that solar pushes down power prices and generates renewable energy credits (where relevant), which hurts wind farm economics.

                solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                  24. We oughtta be building more wind generation capacity. Seriously, solar will get built anyway, but wind needs some help, and wind blows in the dark and in the winter. It doesn’t help that solar pushes down power prices and generates renewable energy credits (where relevant), which hurts wind farm economics.

                  solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                  solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                  solar_chase@mastodon.green
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #24

                  25. To put it another way: when you tell an energy future model to optimise a power portfolio for clean power adequacy, it will give you more wind and less solar than when you tell it to optimise a least-cost electricity sector development.

                  solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                    25. To put it another way: when you tell an energy future model to optimise a power portfolio for clean power adequacy, it will give you more wind and less solar than when you tell it to optimise a least-cost electricity sector development.

                    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                    solar_chase@mastodon.green
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #25

                    26. BNEF’s New Energy Outlook modelling doesn’t want to just solve the intermittency problem with loads of batteries. This is because the batteries get lower utilization rates the more you build. Batteries cannibalize batteries long before you get 100% clean power.

                    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                      26. BNEF’s New Energy Outlook modelling doesn’t want to just solve the intermittency problem with loads of batteries. This is because the batteries get lower utilization rates the more you build. Batteries cannibalize batteries long before you get 100% clean power.

                      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                      solar_chase@mastodon.green
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #26

                      27. Hydrogen made with renewable electricity will be used for steel and fertiliser manufacture. Some may be used to make shipping and aviation fuel. Some may even be burned for power in weeks of low renewables, which is one way to shift energy from summer to winter.

                      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                        27. Hydrogen made with renewable electricity will be used for steel and fertiliser manufacture. Some may be used to make shipping and aviation fuel. Some may even be burned for power in weeks of low renewables, which is one way to shift energy from summer to winter.

                        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                        solar_chase@mastodon.green
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #27

                        28. ...but sometimes net-zero electricity models want to put in hydrogen to cover weeks of low renewables just because the model isn’t given any other option. Deep decarbonization models do weird things. It may turn out there are easier pathways in practice.

                        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                          28. ...but sometimes net-zero electricity models want to put in hydrogen to cover weeks of low renewables just because the model isn’t given any other option. Deep decarbonization models do weird things. It may turn out there are easier pathways in practice.

                          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                          solar_chase@mastodon.green
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #28

                          29. Electrification of transport is far better than biofuels; solar plants can run an electric car on a small fraction of the land used to grow fuel to run a biofuel car.

                          30. Decarbonizing aviation is hard. The CEO of Lufthansa said in 2023 that running its fleet on sustainable aviation fuel made from electricity would take half Germany’s current electricity demand. BNEF thinks this an underestimate.

                          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                            29. Electrification of transport is far better than biofuels; solar plants can run an electric car on a small fraction of the land used to grow fuel to run a biofuel car.

                            30. Decarbonizing aviation is hard. The CEO of Lufthansa said in 2023 that running its fleet on sustainable aviation fuel made from electricity would take half Germany’s current electricity demand. BNEF thinks this an underestimate.

                            solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                            solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                            solar_chase@mastodon.green
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #29

                            31. Direct electrification of aviation would be better. BNEF research did track orders for 989 electric aircraft (mostly small ones) as of early 2022, but this is a long term project. Fingers crossed. (www.bnef.com/insights/30267 ).

                            solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                              31. Direct electrification of aviation would be better. BNEF research did track orders for 989 electric aircraft (mostly small ones) as of early 2022, but this is a long term project. Fingers crossed. (www.bnef.com/insights/30267 ).

                              solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                              solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                              solar_chase@mastodon.green
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #30

                              32. Heatpumps are better for heating homes than hydrogen, but in seasonal climates like northern Europe will exacerbate the seasonal demand and supply mismatch for solar. We need to build wind and probably nuclear as well.

                              33. How mismatched is European seasonal solar supply and electricity demand? Well, here is the situation for my fully electrified house in Switzerland with 13.2kW of solar, a heatpump and an EV. I would have needed about 122kW of PV to be self-sufficient across December.

                              solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                                32. Heatpumps are better for heating homes than hydrogen, but in seasonal climates like northern Europe will exacerbate the seasonal demand and supply mismatch for solar. We need to build wind and probably nuclear as well.

                                33. How mismatched is European seasonal solar supply and electricity demand? Well, here is the situation for my fully electrified house in Switzerland with 13.2kW of solar, a heatpump and an EV. I would have needed about 122kW of PV to be self-sufficient across December.

                                solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                solar_chase@mastodon.green
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #31

                                34. Europeans shouldn't feel guilty about using electricity for airconditioning, it'll all come from the sun anyway by 2030. Solar generation times and seasons match airconditioning demand pretty well, which is good news for really hot countries.

                                solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                                  34. Europeans shouldn't feel guilty about using electricity for airconditioning, it'll all come from the sun anyway by 2030. Solar generation times and seasons match airconditioning demand pretty well, which is good news for really hot countries.

                                  solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  solar_chase@mastodon.green
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #32

                                  35. Nuclear is safer than coal and climate change, and better than gas unless the gas plants are running very rarely. Batteries should help with the unfavourable ramping economics of nuclear (you *can* turn nuclear plants up and down, but you really don’t want to).

                                  solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                                    35. Nuclear is safer than coal and climate change, and better than gas unless the gas plants are running very rarely. Batteries should help with the unfavourable ramping economics of nuclear (you *can* turn nuclear plants up and down, but you really don’t want to).

                                    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                    solar_chase@mastodon.green
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #33

                                    36. We’re finally getting serious about net zero carbon. Getting that last 5-20% of carbon out of power will be hard, and require some expensive solutions. The first 80-95% is easy-ish but we're getting on with it.

                                    37. You can be cynical about government and corporate net zero emissions targets if you like, but they're a lot better than no net zero emissions targets.

                                    solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                                      36. We’re finally getting serious about net zero carbon. Getting that last 5-20% of carbon out of power will be hard, and require some expensive solutions. The first 80-95% is easy-ish but we're getting on with it.

                                      37. You can be cynical about government and corporate net zero emissions targets if you like, but they're a lot better than no net zero emissions targets.

                                      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      solar_chase@mastodon.green
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #34

                                      38. Ordinary people have no idea how much progress we’ve made. Tell people at parties that UK carbon emissions in 2023 were at their lowest level since 1879, for example. Most developed economies are now reducing carbon emissions without lowering quality of life.

                                      solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                                        38. Ordinary people have no idea how much progress we’ve made. Tell people at parties that UK carbon emissions in 2023 were at their lowest level since 1879, for example. Most developed economies are now reducing carbon emissions without lowering quality of life.

                                        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        solar_chase@mastodon.green
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #35

                                        39. …It would still really help if rich people would stop pissing carbon into the atmosphere for no reason.

                                        solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • solar_chase@mastodon.greenS solar_chase@mastodon.green

                                          39. …It would still really help if rich people would stop pissing carbon into the atmosphere for no reason.

                                          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          solar_chase@mastodon.green
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #36

                                          40. There are signs that solar is reducing fossil fuel burn in poorer countries, for example Pakistan — which has no significant government support for solar but has built over 25GW just in response to high prices for power and fuel for irrigation.

                                          41. This has interesting and not uniformly positive side effects. Pakistan may be the first market to see a true 'utility death spiral' where customers who can go solar do so, leaving other customers to pay for the grid, raising power prices..

                                          solar_chase@mastodon.greenS 1 Reply Last reply
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