When renewables flood the grid with more electricity than is needed at that moment, we don’t say „How wonderful!
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@Reinald @jwildeboer @openrisk
We can extract minerals without destroying environments and exploiting people. We should. But currently we don't.
Natrium? I'm guessing that's what I know as sodium? Yes, there are promising developments there.
I'm not well informed on the chemistry - lithium requires cobalt in the anode which is also problematic.The issue as I see it is scaling storage to run industrial plant to support the global population
@OneInterestingFact @jwildeboer @openrisk yes, sorry, it is sodium in english language.
Cobalt free cell cemistry is available.
Again: responsible mining is an issue. We always can do better. The Lithium mining is nevertheless WAY less damaging for nature as oil business is and has been.
Industry scale batteries are done regulary, BMW has a factory with windturbines with battery backup. California has Megawatts capacity to stabilize the network. There are loads of examples.
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@etchedpixels I've seen some really good V2G solutions for big charging stations for delivery vehicles/trucks. They are mostly parked between 21:00-6:00 and they mostly arrive with still 30-60% charged. So topping them up only takes a few hours. You can feed 10-20% per vehicle into the grid in the hours before midnight and gradually move to charging between 2:00-6:00. Do that with 50-100 vehicles and it starts making a lot of sense. @ammdias @eoinho
@jwildeboer @etchedpixels @ammdias @eoinho yes but do those vehicle owners get paid for the additional wear and tear of their batteries?
- If not they don't!
- Even if it's just "freely charged full at the planned departure time"…
- If not they don't!
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@jwildeboer @etchedpixels @ammdias @eoinho yes but do those vehicle owners get paid for the additional wear and tear of their batteries?
- If not they don't!
- Even if it's just "freely charged full at the planned departure time"…
@kkarhan Current research indicates that modern batteries in vehicles last far longer than the vehicle itself, so the wear and tear aspect is severely overrated, in my opinion. Just another "yes but" to stifle progress
See https://www.geotab.com/press-release/ev-battery-health-degradation-fast-charging-study/ @etchedpixels @ammdias @eoinho - If not they don't!
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@kkarhan Current research indicates that modern batteries in vehicles last far longer than the vehicle itself, so the wear and tear aspect is severely overrated, in my opinion. Just another "yes but" to stifle progress
See https://www.geotab.com/press-release/ev-battery-health-degradation-fast-charging-study/ @etchedpixels @ammdias @eoinho@jwildeboer @etchedpixels @ammdias @eoinho yes and no.
All batteries degrade over useage and time, depending on cycles & discharge depth. -
@jwildeboer @etchedpixels @ammdias @eoinho yes and no.
All batteries degrade over useage and time, depending on cycles & discharge depth.@kkarhan Whch is exactly what the research I linked to shows. Batteries degrade, but the rate of decay is lower than most expected. Fast charging raises the rate of decay, but not as severe as many have feared. A typical EV battery will outlast the car it was built into, leading to the secondary market you mentioned. @etchedpixels @ammdias @eoinho
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@kkarhan Whch is exactly what the research I linked to shows. Batteries degrade, but the rate of decay is lower than most expected. Fast charging raises the rate of decay, but not as severe as many have feared. A typical EV battery will outlast the car it was built into, leading to the secondary market you mentioned. @etchedpixels @ammdias @eoinho
@jwildeboer @kkarhan @etchedpixels @eoinho
Also, for most people -- who only commute daily to work --, fast charging is mostly unnecessary. The car could be slow charging when parked at work (or in the parking lot where it awaits the return of its owner) **and** at night, at home.
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When renewables flood the grid with more electricity than is needed at that moment, we don’t say „How wonderful! Let’s find ways to store that excess electricity so we can share it back to the grid when needed.“ Instead we sing the song of fossil fuel capitalism that claims this is a BAD thing and we need to shut down the renewable plants so The Grid can keep on working based on scarcity and rent seeking. It's like we all have been brainwashed by the grid operators and the fossile fuel industry.
@jwildeboer of course in reality this does happen, but it's also a matter of where your generation and storage are. You can't absorb excess supply from Scottish wind farms with EVs in London, for example.
Grids are definitely getting smarter, but maintaining grid stability with additional renewables and increased electrification is neither trivially easy nor cheap.
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@jwildeboer Maybe use the excess to crack water into hydrogen for fuel cell vehicles.
@timjclevenger Hydrogen powered vehicles are barely a thing, but we need to generate it anyway to produce essential stuff like GHG-free steel and fertilizer. It makes more sense to do that than to pursue buy-low-sell-high battery storage schemes. #hydrogen
@jwildeboer -
@OneInterestingFact @jwildeboer @openrisk yes, sorry, it is sodium in english language.
Cobalt free cell cemistry is available.
Again: responsible mining is an issue. We always can do better. The Lithium mining is nevertheless WAY less damaging for nature as oil business is and has been.
Industry scale batteries are done regulary, BMW has a factory with windturbines with battery backup. California has Megawatts capacity to stabilize the network. There are loads of examples.
@Reinald @OneInterestingFact @jwildeboer @openrisk my understanding about grid scale batteries was that they were only good for the short term
As in: grid balancing, best case scenario day/night load shifting?
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@Reinald @OneInterestingFact @jwildeboer @openrisk my understanding about grid scale batteries was that they were only good for the short term
As in: grid balancing, best case scenario day/night load shifting?
@GuillaumeRossolini @Reinald @jwildeboer @openrisk
Mine too - storing PWh to use in 6 months time is way beyond the scale of any tech I'm aware of. -
@GuillaumeRossolini @Reinald @jwildeboer @openrisk
Mine too - storing PWh to use in 6 months time is way beyond the scale of any tech I'm aware of.@OneInterestingFact @Reinald @jwildeboer @openrisk apparently we’re capable of storing heat for seasonal cycles, though I’m skeptical of the numbers presented in this article
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@simo5 France demands solar panels to cover any parking site with more than 80 parking spaces. EPBD (Energy Performance of Buildings Directive) demands solar design as part of the permit process for new building. Things are changing. https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/energy-efficiency/energy-performance-buildings/energy-performance-buildings-directive/solar-energy-buildings_en
@jwildeboer they aren’t rushing to comply, I’m telling you
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