37° heat is depressing.
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My generation and the one before it have made prospects for young people relentlessly shit. They know it. And we’ve trained them to think that voting is the only real agency they have. Which is bullshit.
For the most part, I don’t begrudge them making their lives momentarily less shit
@urlyman
I agree. My daughter not flying would not decrease the CO2 emissions. The fuel that she might have saved gets consumed by some other tourist, or by the military.In the meantime, part of my pension is coming from Big Oil etc.
There is very little an individual can do. (But of course Trump, Putin, the generals in Sudan, etc could have chosen not to start their wars.)
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“I've been thinking I should really start speaking up more. Someone should start changing the social expectation, right?”
Yes! Me too. We need to collectively change the social expectation and the conversation. To encourage each other to use our collective superpowers, taking action like a mass boycott of holiday flights.
@CiaraNi @marjon I get this too, stopped flying years ago thinking there would be electric planes in a few years time, but still nothing 20 years on.
So I get family saying things like ‘you won’t stop your kids flying I’m afraid’ like some kind of cautionary tale *on me* (also I’ve never stopped my kids flying, they have to make their own judgement call). It’s the older / my generation, it would just be nice if we all supported each other in this crisis
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@berlinfokus Not taking an airplane to go on holidays seems like a very simple thing to do here. Instant action that requires no actual sacrifice or loss.
well, personally I'm @ 25 years flight-free now. never felt like a sacrifice at all, more like a liberation actually.
but thats an outsider-position. Not like totally rare, but not mainstream either.
so the question would theoretically be: "why are people not acting in their self-interest ?"
but whatever a scientific answer to that might be, I have made up my mind - they CAN'T. Usually most people are generally unable to anticipate or even see the consequences to their actions.
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@RVLara23 @tsturm @urlyman Lots of people who aren't part of the small privileged minority who can over-consume and fly on holidays are overwhelmed too. If people feel helpless to contribute, then a mass holiday-flight boycott (or similar) should help them feel less helpless. I do believe there are people who don't care, who just value their city break flights higher than they value younger generations' futures. But it's still not socially acceptable to say that.
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@CiaraNi Planetary destruction as a competitive team sport
@gimulnautti It feels like that right enough. The breathless news reports about latest temperatures breaking or not breaking records sound exactly like that - competitions.
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There is a pervasive sense of "what difference does it make?" when it's the 100 corporations and the 1% who do the biggest amount of damage. And there is a lot of truth in that, but waiting for that to be solved will not help prepare us for what is coming either. There is a lot of room between obsessing over "individual footprint" and doing at all nothing to change. Capitalism encourages FOMO; choosing to miss out is part of the resistance.
@hamishb I think there is also a pervasive sense of "what difference does it make?" when 'it' means giving up a convenience or pleasure we don't want to give up. Like holiday flights. And it's only a small minority of us who have the privilege to over-consume and fly in the first place. The 10% (I don't have the figure but believe it's around that) has massive collective power if we put all our individual footprints together. We know 'every vote matters' but struggle with 'every flight matters'.
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@RVLara23 @tsturm @urlyman Lots of people who aren't part of the small privileged minority who can over-consume and fly on holidays are overwhelmed too. If people feel helpless to contribute, then a mass holiday-flight boycott (or similar) should help them feel less helpless. I do believe there are people who don't care, who just value their city break flights higher than they value younger generations' futures. But it's still not socially acceptable to say that.
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@CiaraNi @marjon I get this too, stopped flying years ago thinking there would be electric planes in a few years time, but still nothing 20 years on.
So I get family saying things like ‘you won’t stop your kids flying I’m afraid’ like some kind of cautionary tale *on me* (also I’ve never stopped my kids flying, they have to make their own judgement call). It’s the older / my generation, it would just be nice if we all supported each other in this crisis
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@hemlockcookie Oh that's so depressing. And she's not the only one. I wish the news would show more courage about reporting within a context. They don't need to share that kind of thinking, making a climate crisis seem nice. Demoralising is absolutely the right word.
I have a prescription to not watch news
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In many ways that parallels the way that when you are held up by "Traffic" it is convenient to forget that your car is traffic too!
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@tompearce49 Yes. That's a good comparison.
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@CiaraNi I wonder how much pollution there is from all of the private jets.
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@hemlockcookie @CiaraNi God I want to punch people like that, or scream "we won't have coffee soon because the places where it grows will become deserts, and entitled imbeciles like you offloading responsibility to other people is a reason for that".
Grr.
@MiaMarkTwo @hemlockcookie That's a great way to illustrate it - 'there'll be no more coffee on the patio where we're headed, my friend'
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@hemlockcookie
Yeah. Now try taking your tea outside late afternoon and see how nice that is. (I'm 71 and decidedly undelighted.)
@CiaraNi@Eetschrijver @hemlockcookie Yes, good point. We don't have the freedom to do ordinary stuff in this heat.
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@MiaMarkTwo @hemlockcookie That's a great way to illustrate it - 'there'll be no more coffee on the patio where we're headed, my friend'
@CiaraNi @hemlockcookie There'll be no more *anything* on the patio in the less-distant-than-we-think future - not without protective clothing, anyway. I'm surrounded by neighbours who still think weather and climate are the same thing, or just simply "don't believe" in climate change. I've shouted more than once at them "it's happening whether you believe in it or not you fucking imbeciles".
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@CiaraNi It's frustrating how little attention seems to be directed at a reliable railway system across Europe. I really wish I could just take trains from Denmark to visit my family in Greece, but so many things get in the way (including Hellenic Train being considered pretty much a death trap right now).
@bismuthcrow This resonates. I am longing for the day when the rail system gets integrated and improved enough to make train trips to family feasible. Long-distance trips right now require a lot of time and money, not do-able for (say) a funeral or a wedding with a few days off. Then I can 'upgrade' from No Frivolous Flying (as I call 'not flying on pure holidays') to No Flying at all.
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@CiaraNi Also you're really on point on the language we've been using. It's been shocking to me how many people here in Denmark seem to downplay the situation, not saying much beyond "wow it's pretty hot today isn't it". And when I say how abnormal this all is, my emotional reaction gets attributed to my cultural background
@bismuthcrow Yikes, that's doubly worse, dragging stereotypes about foreigners into the mix in order to ward off any mention of the need to change our behaviour because of climate collapse. I am entirely demoralised by the way almost everyone and every news media has managed to play it down, even as we literally sit in the middle of temperatures that leave no doubt about the climate crisis.
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@CiaraNi @hemlockcookie There'll be no more *anything* on the patio in the less-distant-than-we-think future - not without protective clothing, anyway. I'm surrounded by neighbours who still think weather and climate are the same thing, or just simply "don't believe" in climate change. I've shouted more than once at them "it's happening whether you believe in it or not you fucking imbeciles".
@MiaMarkTwo @hemlockcookie 'Less distant than we think' - I keep thinking about this. It is far less distant than we think. It's already here for some people, in some places on earth.
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@tompearce49 @CiaraNi @annaf @marjon I hope this heatwave will help 95% of the population understand that the problem is not just climate change itself, but also how we live, our culture, and even our philosophy of life.
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@CiaraNi @jakobtougaard @TCatInReality
I really thought after COVID, and grounded planes and quiet skies we had learned something, how wrong was I
Our family stopped using plastic carriers in the '80's and were recycling before we had roadside collections in the UK, we have 11 waterbutts and an extra large tank plumbed to the loo so we don't flush drinking water every time we flush!!
I personally have never flown, I'm not saying any of this to seem like some hero cos I'm not we're a two car household, and both are diesel, I'm just saying there are things that we can do on an individual level.
And we have to keep pushing governments to put in the changes needed, we will get over it!
I can get anywhere I want on TV or online!!
Without passport queues, to moan about!!@DoubleTreble @jakobtougaard @TCatInReality Yes, we managed fine without airborne holidays, flying only when genuinely necessary, and people boasted about all the lovely new places and experiences they'd found in their own country. Then most people rushed back to the cheap charter holidays and cheap flights.
