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  3. I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

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  • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

    And the transformer architecture represented an important step forward in language modeling, that brought improvements to things like spell checking (Doctorow's use case).
    >>

    emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
    emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
    emilymbender@dair-community.social
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #6

    What we argued in Stochastic Parrots, however, was that you can get those benefits of the transformer architecture without ammassing datasets too large to collect with care (meaning consentfully, intentionally, and with the ability to document what's in the data).
    >>

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    • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

      And the transformer architecture represented an important step forward in language modeling, that brought improvements to things like spell checking (Doctorow's use case).
      >>

      emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
      emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
      emilymbender@dair-community.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #7

      And you can build and use language models without turning them into the synthetic text extruding machines that are despoiling our information ecosystem.

      And even if those are easily accessible, because OpenAI et al want to burn through cash with their demos, we can still refute and refuse the narrative that synthetic text is somehow a panacea to be used across social services (medicine, education) and in science, etc.
      >>

      emilymbender@dair-community.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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      • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

        And you can build and use language models without turning them into the synthetic text extruding machines that are despoiling our information ecosystem.

        And even if those are easily accessible, because OpenAI et al want to burn through cash with their demos, we can still refute and refuse the narrative that synthetic text is somehow a panacea to be used across social services (medicine, education) and in science, etc.
        >>

        emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
        emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
        emilymbender@dair-community.social
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #8

        Doctorow could have gone into these details; could have said something about the particular LLM he chose was built (whose data, trained how, how much data, what kind of further data work in RLHF); could have drawn a distinction about use cases.
        >>

        emilymbender@dair-community.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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        • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

          Doctorow could have gone into these details; could have said something about the particular LLM he chose was built (whose data, trained how, how much data, what kind of further data work in RLHF); could have drawn a distinction about use cases.
          >>

          emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
          emilymbender@dair-community.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
          emilymbender@dair-community.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #9

          But instead he wrote a defensive screed, seemingly imagining someone knowing about his LLM use ascribing to him all of the ills of everyone's LLM production and use.

          A missed opportunity, to be sure.

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          • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

            I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

            @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

            https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
            A few further comments, 🧵>>

            noodlemaz@mstdn.gamesN This user is from outside of this forum
            noodlemaz@mstdn.gamesN This user is from outside of this forum
            noodlemaz@mstdn.games
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #10

            @tante small typos if useful to know:
            "And that stand lead him into the problematic train of thought" (led)
            "Of just reap the fruits..." (or)

            And thank you for this piece!!

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            • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

              I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

              @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

              https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
              A few further comments, 🧵>>

              staceycornelius@zeroes.caS This user is from outside of this forum
              staceycornelius@zeroes.caS This user is from outside of this forum
              staceycornelius@zeroes.ca
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #11

              @emilymbender Thank you for this. I read the piece in Smashing Frames yesterday – very thoughtful, as is your response.

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              • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                A few further comments, 🧵>>

                namnatulco@sueden.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                namnatulco@sueden.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                namnatulco@sueden.social
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #12

                @emilymbender @tante
                FYI, there was also a follow-up that I found equally worth reading:
                https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/on-alliances/

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                • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                  I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                  @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                  https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                  A few further comments, 🧵>>

                  funbreaker@pleroma.envs.netF This user is from outside of this forum
                  funbreaker@pleroma.envs.netF This user is from outside of this forum
                  funbreaker@pleroma.envs.net
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #13
                  @emilymbender @tante Enshittification Man himself getting enshittified? Is nothing in this world sacred?
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                  • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                    I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                    @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                    https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                    A few further comments, 🧵>>

                    sstrader@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                    sstrader@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                    sstrader@masto.ai
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #14

                    @emilymbender @tante Thank you so much. Yours is the ethical reading of LLMs that is needed. (1) Moral beliefs lead to choices that are not black-and-white. (2) Tools are not immoral because of their creators. (3) The decision to use knowledge immorally obtained should weigh heavily on the user. (4) Tools whose use produces immoral outcomes should also weigh heavily on the user.

                    It's unfortunate that Doctorow went all-in on logical fallacies and presumed absolutes in order to defend his use.

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                    • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                      I was disappointed to read Cory Doctorow's post where he got weirdly defensive about his LLM use and started arguing with an imaginary foe.

                      @tante has a very thoughtful reply here:

                      https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/
                      A few further comments, 🧵>>

                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                      mhtt@mastodon.social
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #15

                      @emilymbender @tante

                      Ive found some solace in combining Kant's universal categorical imperative with ethical hedonism.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • jwcph@helvede.netJ jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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