It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
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I'm hoping on joining the EU, and getting the Euro, and ending the dollar and No Longer paying banks, in the short term.
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All Canada needs to do is put in legislation to ensure that Interac remains Canadian; require that it's infrastructure and governance are 100% Canadian, as well as prohibiting any transaction data from being exported. Then allow Canadian financial institutions to issue credit products that utilise the Interac network (they sort of already do as anyone with over draft protection and in many cases lines of credit can utilise those with Interac)
@RantingCanuck @kevinrns And again, if I want to use that instrument to book a hotel in France, what happens? If someone in Europe wants to book a hotel in Canada, what happens?
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@RantingCanuck @kevinrns And again, if I want to use that instrument to book a hotel in France, what happens? If someone in Europe wants to book a hotel in Canada, what happens?
Any international payment system that is under the jurisdiction of one nation (or bloc) is always going to represent a risk for Canada to rely on. The best option is to maintain our own domestic national system with international agreements to allow for wider usage. This would mean we could only ever be cut off from a single entity, and even then only by our own choice or by the choice of that entity, without a 3rd party playing any role.
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Any international payment system that is under the jurisdiction of one nation (or bloc) is always going to represent a risk for Canada to rely on. The best option is to maintain our own domestic national system with international agreements to allow for wider usage. This would mean we could only ever be cut off from a single entity, and even then only by our own choice or by the choice of that entity, without a 3rd party playing any role.
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@RantingCanuck @kevinrns And again, if I want to use that instrument to book a hotel in France, what happens? If someone in Europe wants to book a hotel in Canada, what happens?
Just what happens when any member uses it. Canada should join the EU.
Let's sort this out.
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Even if Canada started negotiations with the EU on joining tomorrow it would still require agreement on all 33 accession chapters plus the agreement of all 27 existing EU members and a referendum in Canada because constitutional amendments would be required.
That process would take years, realistically probably closer to a decade, and we as a nation simply cannot wait that long to separate ourselves from the US. Thus in the meantime we need to continue proceeding as a singular entity.
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Even if Canada started negotiations with the EU on joining tomorrow it would still require agreement on all 33 accession chapters plus the agreement of all 27 existing EU members and a referendum in Canada because constitutional amendments would be required.
That process would take years, realistically probably closer to a decade, and we as a nation simply cannot wait that long to separate ourselves from the US. Thus in the meantime we need to continue proceeding as a singular entity.
Yes, that's correct. ASAP is not next week. And yes joining is the goal.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
@alan I’ve already written my bank, one involved in the sale, that I’ll move my investments elsewhere if the sale goes through. And wrote to my MP. Lots of Canadians should do the same and write.
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All Canada needs to do is put in legislation to ensure that Interac remains Canadian; require that it's infrastructure and governance are 100% Canadian, as well as prohibiting any transaction data from being exported. Then allow Canadian financial institutions to issue credit products that utilise the Interac network (they sort of already do as anyone with over draft protection and in many cases lines of credit can utilise those with Interac)
Sure, until the Euro.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
@alan That's a very good point...I hope your government have realised and are taking suitable actions to outwit trump's mafia
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Just what happens when any member uses it. Canada should join the EU.
Let's sort this out.
@kevinrns @RantingCanuck And then what happens when Marie LePen is in power in France and the AfD wins in Germany? I'm all for joining the EU, but there are some things that should be under domestic control. Alliances can change, as we've so clearly seen.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
Given its historic links with France, perhaps one solution would be for Canadian banks to join the French Cartes Bancaires network, which processes card transactions in France - and most CB cards are co-branded with the Visa and Mastercard anyway.
CB operates as a cooperative owned by its member banks. Unlike Visa or Mastercard, CB is a non-profit, so its focus is on serving the French financial system and its users, rather than maximising shareholder profits.
Note there are EU payments processing systems in development, including the digital euro - but Canadian banks joining the Cartes Bancaires co-op would provide a quicker and easier exit from US payments processing.
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Given its historic links with France, perhaps one solution would be for Canadian banks to join the French Cartes Bancaires network, which processes card transactions in France - and most CB cards are co-branded with the Visa and Mastercard anyway.
CB operates as a cooperative owned by its member banks. Unlike Visa or Mastercard, CB is a non-profit, so its focus is on serving the French financial system and its users, rather than maximising shareholder profits.
Note there are EU payments processing systems in development, including the digital euro - but Canadian banks joining the Cartes Bancaires co-op would provide a quicker and easier exit from US payments processing.
@GeofCox If they're co-branded then they're subject to the whims of the idiot in chief. He can issue an Executive Order instructing VISA/MC to de-certifiy parts of their network, which they can do with the flip of a few bits. Even if the networks sue, it would take months if not years to resolve. Meanwhile the transactions fail. It's a widespread vulnerability and the "middle powers" should be working at full speed to eliminate it.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
It would be nice if our central banker PM made this a top priority.
Or, will his loyalties to the establishments of Bay Street and Wall Street prevail?
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It would be nice if our central banker PM made this a top priority.
Or, will his loyalties to the establishments of Bay Street and Wall Street prevail?
@hamishb I don't think the two are at odds. Were I an exec in one of the big Canadian banks, I'd be deeply concerned about the risk. Retail credit and the related transaction fees are a big contributor to revenue.
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@hamishb I don't think the two are at odds. Were I an exec in one of the big Canadian banks, I'd be deeply concerned about the risk. Retail credit and the related transaction fees are a big contributor to revenue.
A US cut-off would certainly be a huge problem for them, but they might be against the kind of no-fee system some here have advocated.
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@santi We have Interac for a low cost national system, but if our economic independence from the US is how we secure our future, then we need a system that works internationally for both trade and tourism. I want to be able to buy some cool thing from a website in Brazil with my payment card that works equally well here, and in Europe, all without the risk if a deranged narcissist being able to say "cut those people out of the system."
@alan Are you calling Biden a "deranged narcissist"? Or you trying to evade the fact that weaponising of payment systems is a bipartisan policy of the imperialist USA?
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@2legged @santi That's an interesting rhetorical approach.
Nonetheless, I think the corporate masters behind both parties are more interested in maintaining their hegemony and the transaction fees that come with it than they are about weaponizing it. If anything the very threat of weaponization is enough to inspire other countries to ameliorate the threat, which is decidedly not in their interests. The deranged narcissist is not working in their best interests but he doesn't care because he's a deranged narcissist.
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