nobody confident in their own abilities is panicking

[da_667@infosec.exchange]

@Viss 5-10 years ago, companies that did appsec assessments were beating themselves off about how writing better code was gonna eliminate cybersecurity and yet, we're still here.

[viss@mastodon.social]

@da_667 the beatings will continue as long as people who dont know shit about computers continue to find themselves in leadership positions where they make the rules about how computers work and who can do what with them

[viss@mastodon.social]

@da_667 heh, i remember a bunch of folks saying how "solid technical controls will eliminate phishing"

then i remember saying "2fa will eliminate phishing"

then "totp will eliminate phishing"

then "zero trust will eliminate phishing"

then "okta will kill phishing"

then "facial recogition and fingerprints will eliminate phishing"

no - as long as you can social a human into clicking shit, phishing will exist.

[fritzadalis@infosec.exchange]

@da_667 @Viss
More LOC means fewer vulns, right?

[krypt3ia@infosec.exchange]

@Viss @acdha There is nuance to be had here though. Sure there was a push for everyone to get into the cybers for the six figures, but, on the other side of it, there is just SO FUCKING MUCH to this field that no one can be a master of it all.

So, using Google is a feature that we all use. I can't vouch for the lying on resume's but, I think we have a problem in our community of being all the "smartest one's in the room all the fucking time"

[cr0w@infosec.exchange]

@Viss @da_667 Maybe if engineers were actually engineers and didn't just import * from * for everything including OSs then there wouldn't be such an attack surface.

[krypt3ia@infosec.exchange]

@Viss @acdha This also goes for the AI equivalent of google searching.

[viss@mastodon.social]

@krypt3ia @acdha maybe i should clarify

i am very specifically referring to people who:
- do not have a technical background
- were formally hair dressers or coffeeshop folks, or oil changers
- who took 1 bootcamp class, or 1 'masters' course, and now want to be leadership or senior redteamers
- these people flatly cannot function without their crutches
- they should never ever have been let to be in charge of shit

[krypt3ia@infosec.exchange]

@Viss @acdha And yet, here we are.

[viss@mastodon.social]

@krypt3ia @acdha its because "you can buy your way into infosec". i even did a talk on it

[krypt3ia@infosec.exchange]

@Viss @acdha Buying certs and those who are paper tigers working in the field are all symptoms of "business"

[viss@mastodon.social]

@cR0w @da_667 thats another big angle too

2 years ago at securityfest i was at lunch and another presenter showed up. some js/npm guy. he laughed and gloated that he doesnt ever need to give a shit about the network or the OS because who cares? his js shit works and thats all that mattered. he openly flaunted being ignorant about how the shit that makes his entire world function is lame and he doesnt care about it.

its that kinda sentiment right there, that installs the rot

[viss@mastodon.social]

@krypt3ia @acdha i refer to it as 'the bureaucratic plumbing', but yep

[krypt3ia@infosec.exchange]

@Viss @acdha It burns for those who got into this as an avocation.

[jackryder@infosec.exchange]

@cR0w @Viss @da_667

"The requirements.txt is 1267 lines?"

We want to be sure...

[cr0w@infosec.exchange]

@jackryder @Viss @da_667 Even the fact that everything runs on GPOSs like Windows because it's easy is bad. Keep it fucking simple. Why should orgs have to mitigate so many vulns in services they don't want and don't need? Because it's easier for "engineers?" GTFO.

[jackryder@infosec.exchange]

@cR0w @Viss @da_667 I've had that convo!

"We don't have resources to do it safely" is such a strange take for an organization that exists in the real world.

Timelines suck, vendors are charming, shareholders have crazy requests. It's a terrible cycle.

But cheating the cycle is lazy and just erodes the efforts of others.

[hal_pomeranz@infosec.exchange]

@cR0w @jackryder @Viss @da_667 Because it’s easier to support if everything is installed and turned on by default. You don’t get pesky users calling saying, “Why isn’t this working?” Fewer support calls saves money.

We were fighting this battle in the OS during my Center for Internet Security days back in the early 2000s and made some progress as far as default installs. But entropy is gonna entropy.

[rrb@infosec.exchange]

@Viss What I am not confident in is the ability of tech CEOs to prioritize delivering products that are not pure shit.

Delivering quality vs. delivering pure crap at a much lower cost?

[drahardja@sfba.social]

@Viss The real victims here are the juniors and people recently entering a new field. LLMs teach you nothing (you have to do the learning yourself, like you always do), yet they give the illusion of productivity. The game is rigged so that junior devs are rewarded for pretending to gain understanding, when all they do is lean on the LLMs and hope they don’t fuck up.