What the fuck is going on in #Germany #Deutschland
-
@benroyce yeah. this concerns a federal state in the former GDR—a failed experiment in socialism, at least in name—which was, in reality, a dictatorship marked by extreme surveillance, poverty, and automatic firing devices at the borders. Beginning in 1989, with the reunification of Germany, all means of production were taken over by the West and absorbed into the capitalist system. A few industrialists owned everything and left the land and its people, with no prospects, to fend for themselves. The young people moved away; the elderly stayed behind. It became the federal state with the oldest population and the lowest voter turnout.
Conservative politicians, the wealthy, and their media celebrate capitalism and demonize left-wing ideologies as direct successors to the “socialist” dictatorship of the past.
The result: a breeding ground for Nazis, fostered by conservatives and capitalists. Structurally and in terms of power politics, it’s comparable to the same shit in Germany a hundred years ago.
I live in Hamburg in West Germany; I’m far left, and we’re watching the developments there with horror.It's so tragic that those who most need the policies of the left, are persuaded by the far right. I can think of lots of reasons these folks fall for this, but it doesn't reduce the tragedy.
-
@RobynNuthall @danimo @benroyce
It's likely that the far-right extremists are the better liars
-
@RobynNuthall @danimo @benroyce
It's likely that the far-right extremists are the better liars
of course
simple lies for simpletons is easy
but i wouldn't classify the left's "hope for the future with something better" as a worse kind of lie. although the far right does
-
we are intent on relearning the worst things the hardest way
@benroyce
Climate collapse could throw a wrench in the fascists’ plans, because it will likely trigger mass migrations of unprecedented scale worldwide. Everyone will be constantly on the move, which could create anarchic structures and cost the despots their power. Then we’ll "just" have to make sure that good forms of anarchy develop, not the bad ones.
🤭 -
of course
simple lies for simpletons is easy
but i wouldn't classify the left's "hope for the future with something better" as a worse kind of lie. although the far right does
@benroyce @RobynNuthall @danimo
The far-right likes to sell left-wing politics to simple-minded people as the ultimate evil, and they actually believe it. When racism is thrown into the mix, the simple-minded are almost completely convinced. It’s not much different here in Europe either.
Social policy is also often labeled as communism, even though it’s far from it. -
the pro-plutocrat fiscal policies and shitty cruel social "values" of the conservative creates the stage for the nazi
sure, sure. everything different from your view is either nazi or pro-nazi or pre-nazi.
Sometimes It seems to see some hair salon where some bunch of gossips says “fake boobs, fake boobs” or “surgery” or “botox” to any other woman they see.
Sorry, it’s boring, and losing. Since forever. Always.
-
@benroyce
Climate collapse could throw a wrench in the fascists’ plans, because it will likely trigger mass migrations of unprecedented scale worldwide. Everyone will be constantly on the move, which could create anarchic structures and cost the despots their power. Then we’ll "just" have to make sure that good forms of anarchy develop, not the bad ones. 🤭to me, any sort of big economic downturn (such as the upcoming AI bubble burst or the much bigger much worse climate collapse) is just fertile mountains of anger to fuel more fascism
the problem is simple
when faced with suffering, even suffering *created* by fascists, people are angry and stupid and can be shaped by all the usual easy lies
the most potent feature of #fascism is anger and frustration is never married with intelligence
so this all over again:
-
sure, sure. everything different from your view is either nazi or pro-nazi or pre-nazi.
Sometimes It seems to see some hair salon where some bunch of gossips says “fake boobs, fake boobs” or “surgery” or “botox” to any other woman they see.
Sorry, it’s boring, and losing. Since forever. Always.
i wouldn't describe accurately identifying the problem as boring
i would describe the usual reaction to identifying the problem as boring:
garden variety cynicism and perfectionism, yes you are right about that
if our car gets a flat tire, that's not boring. if our reaction is to throw up our hands and whine instead of fixing it, yes that's boring
-
@benroyce yeah. this concerns a federal state in the former GDR—a failed experiment in socialism, at least in name—which was, in reality, a dictatorship marked by extreme surveillance, poverty, and automatic firing devices at the borders. Beginning in 1989, with the reunification of Germany, all means of production were taken over by the West and absorbed into the capitalist system. A few industrialists owned everything and left the land and its people, with no prospects, to fend for themselves. The young people moved away; the elderly stayed behind. It became the federal state with the oldest population and the lowest voter turnout.
Conservative politicians, the wealthy, and their media celebrate capitalism and demonize left-wing ideologies as direct successors to the “socialist” dictatorship of the past.
The result: a breeding ground for Nazis, fostered by conservatives and capitalists. Structurally and in terms of power politics, it’s comparable to the same shit in Germany a hundred years ago.
I live in Hamburg in West Germany; I’m far left, and we’re watching the developments there with horror. -
-
to me, any sort of big economic downturn (such as the upcoming AI bubble burst or the much bigger much worse climate collapse) is just fertile mountains of anger to fuel more fascism
the problem is simple
when faced with suffering, even suffering *created* by fascists, people are angry and stupid and can be shaped by all the usual easy lies
the most potent feature of #fascism is anger and frustration is never married with intelligence
so this all over again:
@benroyce
In times of the greatest, most fundamental hardship, however, people often rediscover their greatest strengths: solidarity, empathy, a willingness to help, cooperation, resourcefulness...
We see this time and again after natural disasters—people coming together to move mountains as a community.
Stock prices will no longer matter, and borders will be erased; we’ll be thrown back to the basics.
1/ -
@benroyce
In times of the greatest, most fundamental hardship, however, people often rediscover their greatest strengths: solidarity, empathy, a willingness to help, cooperation, resourcefulness...
We see this time and again after natural disasters—people coming together to move mountains as a community.
Stock prices will no longer matter, and borders will be erased; we’ll be thrown back to the basics.
1/@benroyce
What lies ahead of us now has never happened before—there’s no blueprint for it. We can and must reinvent ourselves.
That’s what I’d rather believe.
-
i wouldn't describe accurately identifying the problem as boring
i would describe the usual reaction to identifying the problem as boring:
garden variety cynicism and perfectionism, yes you are right about that
if our car gets a flat tire, that's not boring. if our reaction is to throw up our hands and whine instead of fixing it, yes that's boring
very american. Which means, dumb.
I hate this superficial, stupid, two-sides-only representation of politics you american have. And then, the arrogance to explain to people living in a place what they see, just because you have a TV at home.
-
@benroyce
What lies ahead of us now has never happened before—there’s no blueprint for it. We can and must reinvent ourselves.
That’s what I’d rather believe.well i can be a total jerk and poo poo your sense of hope
however, i share that sense of hope with you, so i won't, and instead embrace your optimism
we've faced worse. the only real failure would be for us to sit and cry and not roll up our sleeves and get to work fixing this shit
that is what the real left needs to do
the fake left can sit and whine and wallow in cynicism
-
@benroyce @RobynNuthall @danimo
The far-right likes to sell left-wing politics to simple-minded people as the ultimate evil, and they actually believe it. When racism is thrown into the mix, the simple-minded are almost completely convinced. It’s not much different here in Europe either.
Social policy is also often labeled as communism, even though it’s far from it.@Gehtso @benroyce @RobynNuthall @danimo You say simple minded, but remember that an IQ of 100 is the mean. That’s not that clever. Half of the population is less intelligent, and more easily led/ misled.
-
very american. Which means, dumb.
I hate this superficial, stupid, two-sides-only representation of politics you american have. And then, the arrogance to explain to people living in a place what they see, just because you have a TV at home.
that's why i said i could be wrong
so you can educate me
rather than shitting on your allies in the usa
and russia. and israel. and china. etc. ignore those still trying to fight the good fight
which is tactical failure when it comes to the challenge ahead of us
after the election sunday, why don't i just condemn all of germany? because i'm not tactically inept
but perhaps you don't want to fix our problem
perhaps you want to sit there and tweak your ego about how superior you are
-
well i can be a total jerk and poo poo your sense of hope
however, i share that sense of hope with you, so i won't, and instead embrace your optimism
we've faced worse. the only real failure would be for us to sit and cry and not roll up our sleeves and get to work fixing this shit
that is what the real left needs to do
the fake left can sit and whine and wallow in cynicism
@benroyce
That’s how we do it.
We’re all tired and sad and angry and exhausted and frustrated… so, after all, we _can_ only improve our situation now, because there’s much more room to go up than down.
And I wouldn’t necessarily call it optimism, but rather a will to survive, because I’m human, and experience has shown that humans simply can’t help but seek out and find new paths when obstacles block the entrance to the cave.
-
that's why i said i could be wrong
so you can educate me
rather than shitting on your allies in the usa
and russia. and israel. and china. etc. ignore those still trying to fight the good fight
which is tactical failure when it comes to the challenge ahead of us
after the election sunday, why don't i just condemn all of germany? because i'm not tactically inept
but perhaps you don't want to fix our problem
perhaps you want to sit there and tweak your ego about how superior you are
ps: i used to be friends (i moved) with a former bundeswehr guy from munich who moved to the usa after they tried to restation him in east germany after reunification. he said "fuck no"
he had many unkind things to say about east germany
i readily admit my impression of east germany is shaped through the lens of a biased bavarian dude. i recognize my impression can be wrong. i said i can be wrong. so you can educate me
or, you know, shit all over me because it makes your ego feel good
-
that's why i said i could be wrong
so you can educate me
rather than shitting on your allies in the usa
and russia. and israel. and china. etc. ignore those still trying to fight the good fight
which is tactical failure when it comes to the challenge ahead of us
after the election sunday, why don't i just condemn all of germany? because i'm not tactically inept
but perhaps you don't want to fix our problem
perhaps you want to sit there and tweak your ego about how superior you are
It takes no effort to be superior to the US, nowadays. Is not us being superior. It’s you being inferior.
And yo WANTED to be like you are. It’s your fault. Your decision. ALL OF YOU.
rather than shitting on your allies in the usa
we don’t have allies in the US. Some outdated politicians like the one we have still thinks like in the '80s, but for the yonger population, is very clear that US is NOT an “ally”. And many are even asking if US were ever allies.
But you should be able to read german or non-english news , to understand the feeling.
so you can educate me
there is no people who educates you. Is you learning or not. But you can’t even stand a simple statement, like Bavaria is not politically nazi. Because for your dumb brain, there is you, and not you, which means, nazi.
You can’t understand a system with 5,6 parties, cause your brain can only understand 2, and you can’t understand being conservative with no fascism, because this is how it works in america.
Sorry, yyou are Trump. Inherently. Inside you. 100% colonized by Trump. You may take down Trump, democrats can change the wording, and US will still be Trump. Trump is you. Trump is the way you think.
Trump is all of you, and you are all trump. President or not, Trump is America.
-
J jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
