Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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Let's ask the real question:
Firefox users,
do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions?
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
hoping @zenbrowser, based on FF, will stay away from this
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@firefoxwebdevs Why are so many people clicking "yes" here? I don't get why you wouldn't want to have a local offline translator that gives you privacy preserving translations by default. For me the AI kill switch should only kill services that actually send and request data from other companies, here it's just a local translator.
@noah a lot of folks have (reasonable imo) concerns around how these models are trained. I'm not sure how much of that applies to the translation models, but feelings count here.
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@firefoxwebdevs Where's the option for "I do not want this bullshit toy anywhere near my browser"? Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to be pro-slop? Why are all the executives so into this crap? Can't we just let them have their cocaine daydreams without subject the rest of us to it?
@StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Firefox only exists because Google subsidize them so they can point to FF as "proof" that Chrome isn't a monopoly. With the new regime in power, that's a dead issue. So Google want FF to push AI adoption now because they've figured out how to monetize it and they don't want precious eyeballs evading their slopware. If Google cut off their "search" payment to FF, Mozilla goes bust and the C-suite lose their jobs. QED.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs i use Firefox on-device translation fairly regularly! i think it should still be part of some sort of kill switch due to the size of the models that need to be downloaded (iirc?) but definitely allow a way to enable it, and maybe other similar non-LLM ML features. i could see there being a separate LLM killswitch that's a subitem of an ML killswitch
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Why is Firefox even running this survey?
Because the people in charge genuinely believe that AI slop is The Future
and believe that, in order to stay relevant, Firefox must become an AI Browser.But somehow users inexplicably dislike AI slop?! How can this be?!
Embedding AI slop in Firefox as deeply and pervasively as possible is thus a critical goal. But this risks reputational damage with its actual users! To mitigate the risk, bundle features that were not controversial into the discussion of the controversial features; this serves to average the controversy across the (previously uncontroversial, existing) translation feature and highly controversial new slop features, hopefully reducing it below an ignorable threshold.
So Mozilla recently announced their new CEO, Anthony Enzor-DeMeo. Just before the Holiday break. They launched this on the back of their Summary Portfolio Strategy back in November.
There's a key line in the document:
MoCo (and Mozilla) still depend on search for ~85% of revenue.
We know that business line is dying, so they clearly need something new here. And they're trying to do something to keep the ship moving here. This decision isn't just Anthony's decision, there is clear board involvement here, there are lots of people in agreement on how to change direction on this ship.
So let's pick different people. Let's say you get to be in charge. You RA0F are the new board and CEO.
What do you do instead?
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@firefoxwebdevs Here's a concrete example of what I mean, that should be pretty consistent with the Firefox UI design:
@joepie91 @firefoxwebdevs turns out the translator includes mass-collected data too, it's not "open data" at all but whatever they found lying about
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs As said before. Remove ALL AI from firefox and ship it in extensions (or plugins).
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs What about you opt in to the AI stuff you want by installing an extension, it's easy, problem is solved, then you are stopping cramming in stuff people don't want, 99% of people don't need, this has been suggested so many times, and you keep on ignoring it, I guess the answer is pressure from the leardership..
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@firefoxwebdevs The frame of this question is risible.
I am begging you to just make a web browser.
Make it the best browser for the open web. Make it a browser that empowers individuals. Make it a browser that defends users against threats.
Do not make a search engine. Do not make a translation engine. Do not make a webpage summariser. Do not make a front-end for an LLM. Do not make a client-side LLM.
Just. Make. A. Web. Browser.
Please.
@m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs 100% this. I've been using Firefox since before it was called that. I was, way back in the day, an NCSA XMosaic user. I just want the inheritors of that legacy not to ruin it but instead to build he best damn *browser* on the web. Please stop forcing us to use forks designed to fix all the things you break.
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@firefoxwebdevs Where's the option for "I do not want this bullshit toy anywhere near my browser"? Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to be pro-slop? Why are all the executives so into this crap? Can't we just let them have their cocaine daydreams without subject the rest of us to it?
@StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs because most executives were always human slop machines trained on Gartner and linkedin
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@joepie91 @firefoxwebdevs Mozilla's tortured definition of opt-in seems to predict that Mozilla will invent features to nag you into enabling AI, as they have already done with Link Previews: https://www.quippd.com/writing/2026/01/06/architecting-consent-for-ai-deceptive-patterns-in-firefox-link-previews.html
@yoasif @joepie91 @firefoxwebdevs if only there were some way to let users tell you what they actually want https://social.treehouse.systems/@dysfun/115746064081228352
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@StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Firefox only exists because Google subsidize them so they can point to FF as "proof" that Chrome isn't a monopoly. With the new regime in power, that's a dead issue. So Google want FF to push AI adoption now because they've figured out how to monetize it and they don't want precious eyeballs evading their slopware. If Google cut off their "search" payment to FF, Mozilla goes bust and the C-suite lose their jobs. QED.
@cstross @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard
Sure, I just wish they'd stop lying about it and pretending like it's anything anyone actually wants. -
@xela no external service is used. I'm not sure on the resources used for training, but it's useful to know that would factor into your decision. The project is here https://github.com/mozilla/translations
@firefoxwebdevs @xela If you are doing PR for the company about how great AI is, maybe it would be nice for you to know what you are talking about?...
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs We don't want a "kill switch" aka Opt-Out, we want a "live switch" aka Opt-In!
I think it should be very clear by now that most people don't want slop by default.
What is so complicated to understand that?Opt-Out == bad
Opt-In == okay
slop as add-on == best option -
Let's ask the real question:
Firefox users,
do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions?
I actually left Firefox as a user precisely for their stance on AI, but also other stuff, and won't go back even if they were reconsidering:
I deeply mistrust them now.
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@xela @firefoxwebdevs Translations involve either 1 or 2 models depending on the language pairs. Each language requires a model going into, and out of English. Training a language involves on the order of hundreds of GPU hours, and the largest models probably get into the thousands range. Early models were in the thousands range probably before we optimized things.
@gregtatum @xela @firefoxwebdevs So that means that if I'm translating something from swedish to norwegian it's getting translated to english and then back into norwegian, that sounds like an enourmous recipe for desaster with how garbage machine translation is with a single translation, another place where the anglophiles makes everything garbage for everyone else by not thinking through things...
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
4th option: i was a Firefox user until they fed it up with AI@efialto
That's me too!
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante -
Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs I voted in the poll for the least bad option, but I now regret that. Because it’s all so pointless isn’t it? You don’t actually care what I think or what the other users think. If you did you would have asked if we wanted ai slop at all, not what flavour of slop we preferred.
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@mdavis I believe it's a moral stance due to how the models were produced.
@firefoxwebdevs
It might also be about battery usage (be it real or supposed) -
@StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Firefox only exists because Google subsidize them so they can point to FF as "proof" that Chrome isn't a monopoly. With the new regime in power, that's a dead issue. So Google want FF to push AI adoption now because they've figured out how to monetize it and they don't want precious eyeballs evading their slopware. If Google cut off their "search" payment to FF, Mozilla goes bust and the C-suite lose their jobs. QED.
@cstross @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Yep. Their paying customer is Google, not the people using Firefox.
