One of my big pet peeves is when people say "people used to ..." and they describe something well-off or only wealthy people did in the past.
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@mansr @futurebird Plywood is 1850s, some of the crappier ones like chipboard are WW2 though.
There certainly were cheap products, poorly made products in existence as well and plenty of them. There's a second level of skew in the data there because bad ancient furniture is long lost.
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@futurebird this ikea desk has been in our family for years (/joke)
@hi_cial @futurebird @ehproque Well, actually... (sorry to be that guy)
We have an Ikea desk, filing cabinet, and hutch cabinet in our family room that've been in our family for years. They have moved 15 times (at last count) to homes in three states. The holes where a keyboard drawer was mounted show it's definitely the fancy cardboard type of construction...nothing solid there.
The cheapo Sauder kit furniture my parents built for my childhood bedroom is planned to be used in our kids' bedrooms, so it will also be intergenerational "heirloom" furniture that has already been used across five decades.
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@futurebird Furniture has been a choice for at least my lifetime (for those who can afford it) - you can buy something disposable or you can buy something you'll never have to replace, the latter obviously costing more.
You can also buy stuff in the middle, that'll last for quite a while and then go tatty and need replacement. I tend to avoid this stuff and buy at one extreme or the other depending on use case.
I've always been a fan of buying disposable crap that fits the need (when it's something relatively urgent like storage for stuff that's in the way) and then looking for a better one to replace it with at leisure now that there is no time pressure
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I've always been a fan of buying disposable crap that fits the need (when it's something relatively urgent like storage for stuff that's in the way) and then looking for a better one to replace it with at leisure now that there is no time pressure
@gbargoud @futurebird Like, we found a freezer for something like £49.99 to keep stuff in for a few days until the repairman could turn up and fix our real one.
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@futurebird the
most annoying generalised-from-rich-people idea is that women used to stay at home while the men worked. Poor women have always worked - and usually ran the home too.(But on the disposable nature of things, have you read about why historical examples of shoes in museums tend to be tiny? I can't find the article I read about it now but it's survival bias again - the shoes that someone outgrew survived to be put into a museum, while the ones that fit got worn out.)
@louisa_ @futurebird THIIIIIIS! this is the one.
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For example I recently encountered a rant about the terrible quality of Temu furniture.
"Furniture used to be a family heirloom... but now it's disposable" --this isn't a statment without merit, but low quality items that didn't last may not be documented because they didn't last.
The selection bias of it all annoys me a little.
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@futurebird reminds me of Frasier talking about "antiquing"
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@futurebird This is also true when people talk about sexual or racial diversity in the past, or disability. It is like they think elite straight able-bodied white men were the only ones who existed in the past, just because they wrote most of the books and laws that people know about now. The same people who hate being erased and oppressed now have always hated it! They even wrote and said a lot about it! But the books that get reprinted and read reflect elite viewpoints.
@carrideen @futurebird as documented (for sexism if not racism or ableism, tho these can all be opposed in a unified fashion as historically specific examples of "might makes right" ) by Joanna Russ: one of the first tactics of the pro-oppression structure is to make each generation of protest feel like the first generation of protest.
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For example I recently encountered a rant about the terrible quality of Temu furniture.
"Furniture used to be a family heirloom... but now it's disposable" --this isn't a statment without merit, but low quality items that didn't last may not be documented because they didn't last.
The selection bias of it all annoys me a little.
2/2
My dad was a great woodworker, but I only have a couple of small things because he died just when COVID hit and I had to leave in a hurry without time to choose and ship something bigger,, across the Atlantic.
OTOH, I am a poor woodworker but we have a couple of small cabinets I made with my son to teach him how to do it.
But he's followed the family tradition of being even less skilled than me.
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For example I recently encountered a rant about the terrible quality of Temu furniture.
"Furniture used to be a family heirloom... but now it's disposable" --this isn't a statment without merit, but low quality items that didn't last may not be documented because they didn't last.
The selection bias of it all annoys me a little.
2/2
@futurebird In the distant past, before mass production, it was probably the wealthy people who had less durable furniture: delicate details, refined finishes, upholstery that could wear out, and fashions that changed and made old stuff obsolete. With that stuff, there’s a survivorship bias too: it’s preserved through association with the wealthy and powerful and as a showcase for period craftsmanship.
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@becomethewaifu @futurebird it's particularly bad in the UK as we never really designed for heat but to stay warm and keep water out. Even our old buildings often have just enough loft ventilation to stop rot and you won't find cupolas, or any kind of vertical airflows, shading of windows from high sun etc. And almost nobody in the UK even knows about things like sheet cotton attached to the roof timbers so that radiant heat never impacts on the loft floor and thus room ceilings
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One of my big pet peeves is when people say "people used to ..." and they describe something well-off or only wealthy people did in the past. "but nowadays people just..." and they describe something poor and broke people do today.
We don't have as much documentation of how poor people lived in the past... so in a way we don't know how poor people lived as clearly.
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@futurebird It seems to me that learning from elder poor people in rural areas might help. I know my own family, subsistence farmers out of Wexford, Ireland, who landed in Pennsylvania and basically never left. I have furniture from them, including a cheap trunk brought over from the old country, and even that trunk has craftsmanship and care in it. I also have a kitchen table, and a desk, built by my great-grand and grandfather in their barn for their daughters. Plain but solid.
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@maswan @futurebird
Yes! I remember stories like this about houses built in the us (early days like 1600-1700) often times they would burn the house down and go through the ashes to save the nails and hinges. Much faster than taking a crowbar and hammer to it
and the nails would be intact. There wasn’t a “housing market” per-se at the time in the “wilderness” (which again is a terrible term from colonialism 
) and the conception was (at the time) that there were too many trees 
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For example I recently encountered a rant about the terrible quality of Temu furniture.
"Furniture used to be a family heirloom... but now it's disposable" --this isn't a statment without merit, but low quality items that didn't last may not be documented because they didn't last.
The selection bias of it all annoys me a little.
2/2
@futurebird Agreed! Furniture for poor people used to be boxes made of scrap wood or cardboard. Either that or throw-a-ways found on the street or at the town dump.
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One of my big pet peeves is when people say "people used to ..." and they describe something well-off or only wealthy people did in the past. "but nowadays people just..." and they describe something poor and broke people do today.
We don't have as much documentation of how poor people lived in the past... so in a way we don't know how poor people lived as clearly.
1/
@futurebird
and another thing, people used to wait until a celebration day to bake a cake or make fancy desserts, but now people expect to find candy in the check-out lane of the supermarket and baked sweets at every coffee stand. Dessert used to be special. -
@RobotDiver @futurebird
Yup! I still have a piece like that from my mom’s family! (The whole set included this dresser, a “writing table” and double bed with a huge headboard all made of a soft wood that I assume is white pine (from the north east us)
If anyone wants to add to the description for the alt text please let me know as I am unsure if I covered everything -
One of my big pet peeves is when people say "people used to ..." and they describe something well-off or only wealthy people did in the past. "but nowadays people just..." and they describe something poor and broke people do today.
We don't have as much documentation of how poor people lived in the past... so in a way we don't know how poor people lived as clearly.
1/
@futurebird My pet peeve is when people get annoyed at stuff THEY USED TO DO!
“Kids these days knock on my door and run away. It’s the downfall of society”.
“You told me about when you did it”.
“But back then it was fun”. -
@stellarsarah @futurebird yes, sorry, when I said "stay at home", I was thinking "ran the home" rather than just being ladies of leisure. But worth noting that poor women would have also been making the clothes for the family, as well as all the cooking/cleaning, and working outside the home, so very much working a double shift.
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@futurebird exactly - you can still buy heirloom quality furniture today. Its just expensive.
I've seen a lot of the inverse too, which bugs me even more more, personally - "back in the day everyone was poor as dirt and we just had beans and cornbread, when we were lucky. Now we can eat whatever we want 3 meals a day and people still complain about being poor"
Sir, you came up, not everyone did.
@AldinTheMage @futurebird In case you werent' aware, Mony Python were making fun of that attitude in 1982.
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@futurebird exactly - you can still buy heirloom quality furniture today. Its just expensive.
I've seen a lot of the inverse too, which bugs me even more more, personally - "back in the day everyone was poor as dirt and we just had beans and cornbread, when we were lucky. Now we can eat whatever we want 3 meals a day and people still complain about being poor"
Sir, you came up, not everyone did.
Yeah, I mean, visit a Walmart once in a while. Some of the people shopping there are obviously not doing well financially.
Like, I saw a woman with a kid a few weeks ago who was buying nothing but canned beans. The implications were…not pleasant.
