unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long.
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@hagen 100% Never was there a group of people so ready to throw themselves to the wolves.
There’s an interesting history book _The Revolt of the Engineers_ (they didn’t; predictable damages ensued).
I used to think the best union model for programmers was the theater/movie system. Enforces a floor for everyone, allows for stars. Thats also creaking under monopoly, but maybe anything would.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen As a developer I agree with this wholeheartedly! I mean there are a few hints of organisation but it never took off on a wide basis.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen TikTok did unionize (worker’s council) in Germany in 2022 and it was met with heavy resistance internally (company sued). I think being in an union is still seen as something for blue collar workers so tech leads, managers and most tech personnel see themselves as above that. It’s incredibly hard to get people in tech and gaming to join their union (I tried) and I believe it’s a mix of ignorance, knowledge gaps, and arrogance.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen Worth boosting the struggle of @wwu in its fight for unionizing the #wikimedia foundation.
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There’s an interesting history book _The Revolt of the Engineers_ (they didn’t; predictable damages ensued).
I used to think the best union model for programmers was the theater/movie system. Enforces a floor for everyone, allows for stars. Thats also creaking under monopoly, but maybe anything would.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen@mastodon.social
I joined an union in 2012 with most of my collegues (most of them developers). Our union, the #CGIL, the largest left-wing #Italian #union, helped a lot during a hard hitting company crisis, when the company owners were desperate enough to fire people and to pressure developers to renounce to their rights "to save the company".
They have been hard years to go though but now things go better.
Unfortunately, on the tech side, the union has shown no real understanding of the global issues, and use broadly #BigTech tools, weakening the #privacy of the #workers and their own battles.
I've argued in several context that they should give emails to all people who join and teach them how to use #PGP. I argued they should provide #NextCloud space and maybe #fediverse accounts.
But while everybody see the problem, nobody care enough to invest the money required.
So joining a union is useful to address local issues but, as of today, not useful at all to fight global battles in an effective way.
@tiotasram@kolektiva.social
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen I am deeply ashamed of myself for feeling as though I did not deserve to unionise because I was comfortable. To me, unions were for people who deserved better conditions, but not for a single moment in my 20+ years career until the past handful of years did I realise that comfort does not equal leverage, but rather the opposite.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen I worked at Intel for years as a contract worker, as do most people working at Intel. Several times I saw labor unions publicly announce they were going to try to organize at Intel, and then it would turn out they were concentrating on direct Intel employees only. To some extent I can understand this, as there are significant legal barriers to organizing contract workers. However, by publicly announcing organizing campaigns, and then focusing exclusively on the workers with the least to gain and the most to lose, those campaigns almost immediately failed, each time.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen
unfortunately a lot of devs are embracing llms and don't see any issue -
@hagen
unfortunately a lot of devs are embracing llms and don't see any issue@tthbaltazar that’s also a problem that i have many opinions on, especially because of the ethics and environmental impact. but it’s one thing when it’s happening on their terms but i hear from so many people in the industry that they’re being forced to use them and so many just do because they don’t know how labour disputes work.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen Late in my career in tech I got high enough to spend lots of time in meetings with execs and investors. They didn't hate us as individuals but they hated that they had to treat talented engineers well. Or even have them. They don't like being dependent on people who know more than they do and will tell them why their latest half baked tech idea won't work.
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@hagen Late in my career in tech I got high enough to spend lots of time in meetings with execs and investors. They didn't hate us as individuals but they hated that they had to treat talented engineers well. Or even have them. They don't like being dependent on people who know more than they do and will tell them why their latest half baked tech idea won't work.
@ericm yep, it’s the same in every industry. even a well compensated worker is still a worker. and that’s why the best time to start unionizing is when you have all the leverage to install safeguards.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen you're correct. In 2015 when I asked coworkers (wgo were ranting about badly paid on-call duty periods) why they were not organising a strike, I was answered "it's too extreme". IT people prefered to job hop instead of building a strong a nice company ambiance. Now that there are way more person than opening jobs, they're kicking themselves (and the majority of them don't even understand it's because they never acted)
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@hagen
unfortunately a lot of devs are embracing llms and don't see any issue@tthbaltazar @hagen i hate llms
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@hagen I am deeply ashamed of myself for feeling as though I did not deserve to unionise because I was comfortable. To me, unions were for people who deserved better conditions, but not for a single moment in my 20+ years career until the past handful of years did I realise that comfort does not equal leverage, but rather the opposite.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen agreed, we should have unionized in 2020-2022 at the latest.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen it’s wild to me how many programmers wholeheartedly support AI in coding as well like. you’re literally training it to take your job!!!
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen They also refused to speak up when the union advocates got fired for it.
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unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
@hagen Are you still surprise that the nerds didn't fight back?
Last I checked they where to busy, telling me and everybody else to learn to code, among such as other statements as "crypto is the future", "NFT is more then three slurs in trench coat", "AI is the future, stop fighting it!" and something about libertarians not being all about reducing the age of consent. While screaming about there life being soo much better then us plebeins.
My closing thought: LOL the clanker took your job! -
unpopular opinion: software developers were too comfortable for too long. they didn't unionize when everybody told them to. they didn't use the time they had when they were on top to implement meaningful safeguards for their jobs. and now llms are hitting their industry like a sledgehammer and they don’t know how to fight because they never did.
i don’t say that to blame them, it’s still their bosses who are the problem. but take it as a wake up call and unionize. better late than never.
Unionization requires that you feel equal among workers. The individual wages, skill levels and tastes about development made that kind of equality impossible from the start.
It also requires hardship and understanding that this hardship would also affect one self if people don't stick together.
In an environment where people switch jobs every two years, immediately get hired again, with a 10-20% raise, why would you ever join a union?
