As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
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@randahl
I have previously suggested bicycle paths.What better way to get more people to cycle than to put a roof over the bicycle path?
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As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
Here is an example from Denmark: Kassø Solar Plant. Measured diagonally it is 3.4 kilometers long and it completely surrounds the tiny town of Hjolderup. I wonder what the people who live there feel about everything around them being turned into steel and dark glass panels.
Would it not be better to place all these panels over our parking lots and highways?
@randahl In Turlock, CA, they're testing solar panels mounted over canals. https://www.fresnobee.com/news/california/article315553082.html
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@randahl I would guess they prefer that to a nuclear power station nearby.
@aus_der_UBahn @randahl false dilemma.
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@randahl You can do "agrivoltaic" farming, growing crops or keeping animals on the same land as solar panels. The land receives the same amount of rain, and shade can be beneficial.
I've seen articles about the potential in agrivoltaic farming from time to time, and it simply does not match the reality out there - at least not in Denmark.
Driving through the farmland in autumn and spring you'll see machinery 12-24 or even 36 meters wide, pulled by tractors with 200-300 horsepower or more.
Dirt is flying, small rocks bounce off metal plates and in general you are in the middle of an insanely hostile environment, if you are a small, glass-covered plate of sensitive photovoltaics.
So, modern, large scale farming and solar panels? - no.
Vegetables, berries and fruits? - maybe, depending on the scale and if shade messes up your crop.
Animals and solar? - again, maybe. Cattle could work, but those stands better be solid and tall, or the cows will break it down trying to scratch that itch on their back.
Pigs? Hell no. They'll tear the ground up looking for whatever lives below the surface, chew through the electric cables and electrocute themselves on a weekly basis.
Sheep and goats? - probably yes. They'll love the shade and the shelter, and as long as you keep all electric cables above the ground inside strong metal pipes and any kind of plastic out of reach, you should be golden.
But, in general, keep solar panels away from farming machinery - they don't mix well.
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@leeloo yes, I get it
Still as someone who cycles for two decades I am not sure it is a great idea. Also hard to be done right. It has to be large to be effective even with slight breeze and it would probably feel quite... confining. I think many people seek exactly the opposite in cycling.I'd start with actual roofs and parking lots.
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As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
Here is an example from Denmark: Kassø Solar Plant. Measured diagonally it is 3.4 kilometers long and it completely surrounds the tiny town of Hjolderup. I wonder what the people who live there feel about everything around them being turned into steel and dark glass panels.
Would it not be better to place all these panels over our parking lots and highways?
@randahl While I support solar on roofs as first choice, this is an extreme example, the largest solar area covered in Northern Europe, which sustains the energy consumption of 75.000 houses. Its still not pretty, but all residents have been offered to sell their houses at market prices or they got a compensation for lost property value. Also, the bland corn fields which fueled power stations before were much less efficient and thus used even more land than solar cells.
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As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
Here is an example from Denmark: Kassø Solar Plant. Measured diagonally it is 3.4 kilometers long and it completely surrounds the tiny town of Hjolderup. I wonder what the people who live there feel about everything around them being turned into steel and dark glass panels.
Would it not be better to place all these panels over our parking lots and highways?
@randahl Random ideas. I saw somewhere they are putting solar panels over canals in India. You could make the solar panels into a meadow by planting native plants to attract wildlife. Last idea I saw somewhere was to grow grass and use it as a goat field. The goats “mow” the grass by eating it.
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I've seen articles about the potential in agrivoltaic farming from time to time, and it simply does not match the reality out there - at least not in Denmark.
Driving through the farmland in autumn and spring you'll see machinery 12-24 or even 36 meters wide, pulled by tractors with 200-300 horsepower or more.
Dirt is flying, small rocks bounce off metal plates and in general you are in the middle of an insanely hostile environment, if you are a small, glass-covered plate of sensitive photovoltaics.
So, modern, large scale farming and solar panels? - no.
Vegetables, berries and fruits? - maybe, depending on the scale and if shade messes up your crop.
Animals and solar? - again, maybe. Cattle could work, but those stands better be solid and tall, or the cows will break it down trying to scratch that itch on their back.
Pigs? Hell no. They'll tear the ground up looking for whatever lives below the surface, chew through the electric cables and electrocute themselves on a weekly basis.
Sheep and goats? - probably yes. They'll love the shade and the shelter, and as long as you keep all electric cables above the ground inside strong metal pipes and any kind of plastic out of reach, you should be golden.
But, in general, keep solar panels away from farming machinery - they don't mix well.
Due to the DNS issues, it's hard to look up exact numbers right now.
But for Germany, iirc, 15% of agricultural land is used for energy plants, 20% for pastures. (Agricultural land is 50% of the area of Germany)
This alone would be far more than the area needed for PV.
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As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
Here is an example from Denmark: Kassø Solar Plant. Measured diagonally it is 3.4 kilometers long and it completely surrounds the tiny town of Hjolderup. I wonder what the people who live there feel about everything around them being turned into steel and dark glass panels.
Would it not be better to place all these panels over our parking lots and highways?
@randahl TvSyd was there a few years ago: https://www.tvsyd.dk/aabenraa/her-er-byen-der-blev-omringet-af-nordeuropas-stoerste-solcellepark
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As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
Here is an example from Denmark: Kassø Solar Plant. Measured diagonally it is 3.4 kilometers long and it completely surrounds the tiny town of Hjolderup. I wonder what the people who live there feel about everything around them being turned into steel and dark glass panels.
Would it not be better to place all these panels over our parking lots and highways?
I think they are doing that too. Would make a good barrier between train tracks and everything else.
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As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
Here is an example from Denmark: Kassø Solar Plant. Measured diagonally it is 3.4 kilometers long and it completely surrounds the tiny town of Hjolderup. I wonder what the people who live there feel about everything around them being turned into steel and dark glass panels.
Would it not be better to place all these panels over our parking lots and highways?
@randahl with any new technology, there will be improvement in both efficiency and positioning. I think it might be easier to move the PV panels than, say, a nuclear reactor.
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As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
Here is an example from Denmark: Kassø Solar Plant. Measured diagonally it is 3.4 kilometers long and it completely surrounds the tiny town of Hjolderup. I wonder what the people who live there feel about everything around them being turned into steel and dark glass panels.
Would it not be better to place all these panels over our parking lots and highways?
@randahl while I agree it isn’t the prettiest and that we need to cover roofs and parking lots, I think we need both and we need more wind turbines and batteries too. Fact is this is the cheapest way and price often wins.
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Due to the DNS issues, it's hard to look up exact numbers right now.
But for Germany, iirc, 15% of agricultural land is used for energy plants, 20% for pastures. (Agricultural land is 50% of the area of Germany)
This alone would be far more than the area needed for PV.
Energy plants (depending on what they are) are usually farmed with the same kinds of equipment as the ordinary farm crops, so I don't really see that as an option either - the risk of damaging panels during soil preparation is still too high in my opinion.
Pastures are a better option, but, like I said above, it's somewhat depending on who's grazing there. Also, at least here in Denmark, a significant portion of grass fields are rotated (Corn - Clover-grass - Barley - Catch crops), so we're back to heavy machinery.
Meadows might be an option since that type of land is usually hard to use for anything but grazing, but it also tends to be pretty, so covering those with solar panels might not be that popular.
To be honest, I probably prefer retiring farmland that is on the fringe anyway and use that for solar panels. Sandy, drought-prone areas that need a lot of watering and fertilizer to provide a usable crop yield has a lot going for it as the base for a solar farm instead.
I wish that a bit more work would go into putting up trees around the fields, though. A 12 row shelterbelt around the lot would go a long way towards reducing the visual impact of a solar park.
All that aside, to Randahls original point, yes, cover every parking lot and any roof capable of carrying the panels.
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As much as I love the green revolution, every time I drive through a solar farm, I cannot help thinking this does not feel right.
Here is an example from Denmark: Kassø Solar Plant. Measured diagonally it is 3.4 kilometers long and it completely surrounds the tiny town of Hjolderup. I wonder what the people who live there feel about everything around them being turned into steel and dark glass panels.
Would it not be better to place all these panels over our parking lots and highways?
@randahl I totally agree. In the Netherlands we see good farming land being used for solar plants because it generates more money. A total waste of resources.
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@randahl
Yes. Every roof. -
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Oh, but for sure - I don't disagree that energy crops are a woefully inefficient use of land. I thought you wanted to have solar panels on the fields WITH the energy plants, and that would be problematic.
I think we basically agree, then - let's use the best arable land for "real" agriculture and use an area comparable to the area used for energy plants for solar panels instead - and since the quality of the soil is pretty much irrelevant, let's use the area that is the least useful for growing crops anyway.
