LLM code is the lead pipe of our generation of software engineers.
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@danirabbit I saw it described elsewhere as digital asbestos.
@thepwnicorn @danirabbit "aisbestos" is my current favourite. It certainly is. A wonder-product to cure all our problems now. It won't take as long as asbestos for it to be revealed as an awful idea though.
I'm sure it'll be harder for big ai to hide it than for big asbestos who spent years suppressing science, lobbying governments and denying victims' claims.
Pliny the younger wrote of the illness of asbestos mine workers and he's so old he's in history books. He even wrote about history before it had been invented. Probably because it was the present when he wrote. However we still put asbestos in everything we could in the twentieth century.
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@danirabbit LLM is just tool. Thats all!
@muod @danirabbit A stolen tool that kills a non-trivial fraction of a polar bear every time it's used, that is sold by a man who constantly lies about its capabilities.
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@danirabbit LLM is just tool. Thats all!
@muod @danirabbit So are whips. I heard baking with them is all the rage nowadays.
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P pelle@veganism.social shared this topic
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LLM code is the lead pipe of our generation of software engineers. They’re going to be replacing it for decades and wondering how we were so foolish
It's so wonderful to see such faith in the quality of the average human-written code!
But every time I look at Coverity (an excellent static analyzer for finding difficult bugs) I see their "defect density over time" graph which has the "OSS average" set at 0.5 (presumably per 1000 LOC).
Whenever I added new code, I could not get it to stay at 0.0, whether it was my code, other humans or AI. I had to rely on Coverity to determine the errors and fix them (now also AI's job).
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@muod @danirabbit A stolen tool that kills a non-trivial fraction of a polar bear every time it's used, that is sold by a man who constantly lies about its capabilities.
@rupert @danirabbit yes Agreed!
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LLM code is the lead pipe of our generation of software engineers. They’re going to be replacing it for decades and wondering how we were so foolish
@danirabbit LLM for SW-Engineering = Creating technical debt on steroids ...
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LLM code is the lead pipe of our generation of software engineers. They’re going to be replacing it for decades and wondering how we were so foolish
@danirabbit AIsbestos
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@thepwnicorn @danirabbit "aisbestos" is my current favourite. It certainly is. A wonder-product to cure all our problems now. It won't take as long as asbestos for it to be revealed as an awful idea though.
I'm sure it'll be harder for big ai to hide it than for big asbestos who spent years suppressing science, lobbying governments and denying victims' claims.
Pliny the younger wrote of the illness of asbestos mine workers and he's so old he's in history books. He even wrote about history before it had been invented. Probably because it was the present when he wrote. However we still put asbestos in everything we could in the twentieth century.
@securedllama @thepwnicorn @danirabbit lead pipes, asbestos, pfas... it mostly all fits either way. 🧟
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@danirabbit LLM is just tool. Thats all!
@muod@mastodon.social so was lead, used because it was cheap and easy to form, despite knowing the dangers
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LLM code is the lead pipe of our generation of software engineers. They’re going to be replacing it for decades and wondering how we were so foolish
@danirabbit unfortunately, it's the few powerful, and possibly non-techie, CXOs who are so convinced that this is such a great idea. The rest of us have little choice but to go along with this hysteria just to keep our jobs.
To be honest, the economics doesn't make sense to me. The amounts being spent on this — I am struggling to see the returns. Only time can tell a few stories. But until then, I need to feed my family and send my kids to college.
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@danirabbit That's the time frame I considered, decades. Furthermore, there will be advances with the technology. In some years LeCun plans to have his startup produce new models, based on JEPA. If you give even a 10-20% more reliability to current systems people will eventually adopt them as undisputable truth - even if they fail a 50% of times, and bias users 90% of times.
I've had a talk right yesterday with a very smart engineer who was anyway totally enchanted by an LLM's results.@luc0x61 @danirabbit my experience today was another example of why you should have prod and dev separated.
Asked to test entry. Test succesful, entry removed
The other was implementing smtp, and it sent all test emails to logs succesfully. Yup
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LLM code is the lead pipe of our generation of software engineers. They’re going to be replacing it for decades and wondering how we were so foolish
@danirabbit why would anyone care about code quality, if code is a commodity?
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LLM code is the lead pipe of our generation of software engineers. They’re going to be replacing it for decades and wondering how we were so foolish
@danirabbit For decades we’ve worried about replacing COBOL because the code was often opaque; the underlying business rules transformed into a spaghetti bowl of logic paths exacerbated by the REDEFINES clauses making the data just as awful.
The folks that considered leaving COBOL in place as an acceptable technology choice will buy into vibe-code slop and proclaim (still) “it ain’t broke so there’s no need to fix it.”
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@danirabbit I'm a bit curious how ElementaryOS (well, you lot
) are coping with upstream vibecoding if and when it happens? I have no bright ideas, to be honest - so consider this my copium asking more knowledgable people
.@tofticles not well, personally haha
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@tofticles not well, personally haha
@danirabbit Absolutely fair 🫣.
