Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice so you *do* accept slop, so long as they can explain it.
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@libreoffice contributors doing a pinky promise in how they aren't using the slop machine in the way the slop machine encourages everyone to use it doesn't make those contributions any less slop.
In addition to that, it does nothing to make you less complicit with all the shockingly excessive CO2 production, hurdles in adoption of green energy, exploitation of workers in the training process, forced deskilling of specialised workers, financing and legitimisation of the most egregious corporations who are eagerly collaborating openly with fascist governments and contributing to war crimes, and transfer of wealth from individuals to these massive corporations and billionaires, among other issues that I probably forgot to include.
Do you really want to allow contributions that gave this kind of impact in the world? Changing your contribution guidelines to forbid AI contributions has both a positive impact in the development process and a positive impact in the world around. I ask you to reconsider this and make a change for the better, everyone will celebrate it the same way they celebrated the first article about not having slop features in the suite.
@ThisIsFroggie @davidgerard @libreoffice Exactly. Obfuscating the truth. Normalising lies. Completely ignoring the environmental consequences as though it’s a different conversation. Again, how much of complicit okay?
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice Being on the fence is one thing. Lying about the context of the “No AI” policy is criminal. Then arguing that you were right when your own policy proves you were being disingenuous, is goddam reprehensible. Fire the big tech marketing muppet and get on with it–you are alienating your target market.
Take responsibility and apologise. You cannot hide it. You have been called out.
People have had enough of this bullshit.
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@svavar I did not intend this to come over this way. I myself am very critical of LLMs and LO's use/acceptance of them and do not support their decision or want to argue in favor of it, I just genuinely wanted to take a look at those commits and thought it wouldn't be much effort for @barubary to share them after already having found them before. He actually took more effort with those explanations than I would've expected and I want to thank him for that.
@serak @svavar @barubary I think it's reasonable. Someone said they saw it.
I am definitely not FOR use of sex toys in software development, and I can see that the policy would be hard to enforce.
But it is *not* sea lioning when someone claims they have *seen* evidence.
Accusing someone of sea lioning in this situation is wonky.
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@solitarywalker @libreoffice or you could ban and shame liars when you catch them, that works too
@davidgerard @solitarywalker @libreoffice yup.
And, people seem to be forgetting that releases don't necessarily have all commits.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice I'm not just worried about sloppy lines of code. I'm concerned over you accepting and normalizing a technology that cannot be separated from exploitation, largescale violation of intellectual property, and systems of inequality and dependency...
I would greatly appreciate if could at least address these problems if you choose to accept LLM contributions, and not just gloss over them. I'd be happier if you could continue completely AI-free.
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@desantis @TCD @libreoffice 30 years ago when I graded computer science students, since we had no way of knowing if they actually wrote the code themselves, all we had to go on was how well they could explain what they had done and answer questions about it.
But you can’t truthfully answer questions like ”why did you do it like this” when you haven’t done it yourself. And that goes for code that your friend wrote as well as generated code. And the why is important, perhaps the most important.
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@libreoffice I had a feeling that when you say 'no ai included by default' you meant that you do keep a nook open for it, though.
and it looks like that is the case.
you people made Libreoffice without slop before now. lose your principles, but maybe also be honest about it.and don't say you check each slop line, either
we know you don't. we know your reviewers and the submitters will not.
if you can't even write it, you don't know it, and if you don't know it, giving it a 'look over' is useless.
I could write rocket launch code with ai
and maybe I'd give it a look over before I launch it
but that doesn't mean I knew what to look for, it doesn't mean I could understand a vulnerability if I saw it
and maybe my rocket could get people killed
(inb4 'don't worry, ai is used to check the ai's work!')what ai makes it slop
whether you review the ai, or notmaybe libreoffice would like to purchase the finest of my NFTs?
I also have a few bridges@digipooch I was sincerely surprised OnlyOffice also integrated AI.
We're in deep doo-doo.
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@desantis @TCD @libreoffice 30 years ago when I graded computer science students, since we had no way of knowing if they actually wrote the code themselves, all we had to go on was how well they could explain what they had done and answer questions about it.
But you can’t truthfully answer questions like ”why did you do it like this” when you haven’t done it yourself. And that goes for code that your friend wrote as well as generated code. And the why is important, perhaps the most important.
@ahltorp @TCD @libreoffice This is the way. And, don't get me wrong, sometimes explaining something highly technical in layman's terms can be challenging, yet it is not impossible.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice since I don't work on the code, and it has worked well decades, I have to trust that major and minor releases will be properly tested.
It's an issue of trust.
There's not much trust for llm use, as the responses show.
Llm use has become ubiquitous. The case for technical debt is there.
I choose to trust the project until proven I cannot.
The concerns are real, the stakes are high for digital sovereignty.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice And this, kids, is what we call a cop out.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice So, this policy is just that your project points out the issues with LLMs, states that it is probably not good for someone to use them, limits the uses, and then makes a *blatent exception* for the worst use-cases of LLMs.
This policy is basically the green-washing of LLM policies.
People who write patches with LLMs generally do not read the policies around them, so unless it is a stupid simple yes or no, these things are bikeshed forever. I don't envy your future review process.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice Wait, people don't want their critical data stolen by obese Tech Bros, and organizations like LibreOffice have to appease both the greedy data miners, AND their customers?
Welcome to Capitalism greed, where 'too much' is never too much. Ultimately, you'll move toward 'maximizing profits', so may as well proceed as usual, with superficial reassurances, then fully folding to classic abuse of power.
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@libreoffice I'm sorry, but I switched from MS Office suite to LibreOffice explicitly to avoid LLM utilization at all levels. This doesn't inspire confidence at all.
@Ferroxo @libreoffice
Yeah, not cool.
I wish you could (at every level) banish LLM usage in LibreOffice development. We don’t want a fast development of LibreOffice, new features every week. LLM is only a way to push more new code faster. It has no other role in software development. -
Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice Boo.
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
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Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice "It doesn't rewrite your content"
False, I have a list of songs that I like (Started making it YEARS ago when my Youtube playlist kept deleting videos/songs that I saved). Whenever I add a - dash - between the artist and song name, hitting space after the song name changes the dash into a bigger dash.
I also had to fight tooth and nail to figure out how to stop LibreOffice writer from auto-correcting words, because it thought I misspelled certain words.
So no, Libreoffice DOES rewrite the things I type down, and can be quite annoying for that.
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@libreoffice Wait, people don't want their critical data stolen by obese Tech Bros, and organizations like LibreOffice have to appease both the greedy data miners, AND their customers?
Welcome to Capitalism greed, where 'too much' is never too much. Ultimately, you'll move toward 'maximizing profits', so may as well proceed as usual, with superficial reassurances, then fully folding to classic abuse of power.
-
Reminder: #LibreOffice includes no AI features in the software. It doesn't rewrite your content, train algorithms, or share your data. There is zero AI functionality in the app.
Regarding the use of LLMs in the development process, we have a strict policy about this: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy – Contributors who use such tools must be able to explain EVERY changed line of code. We do not accept any "slop".
@libreoffice
stop redefining our feedback to suit your narrative. we want NONE of this. your policy should be a flat "this is not allowed", PERIOD. no alternatives.instead of trying to do damage control PR as if you're trying to sell me something, you should just fix the damn problem. that's all we care about.
