Yet another #Artemis II article (from a French press agency, no less) ignoring that propulsion, power, & life support to the Orion capsule are provided by ESA’s European Service Module.
-
@birchbirch The problem with that is that people are often fine with glorious, exciting endeavours when the bill is footed by someone else.
Ask your golf friends whether they’d be willing to pay an extra few percent income tax to fund an independent European human spaceflight programme & a wider boost to education, universities, government R&D, tech incubation, & science needed to support, justify, & benefit from such a programme.
I suspect you know the answer already
@markmccaughrean Golfers are rather used to the imposition of additional levies to be used for "future programmes" - whether the members want them or not! But you're right; a good proportion wouldn't be in favour of additional taxes.
-
@markmccaughrean Quite a lot of people used to be really excited about manned space exploration, myself being one of them, but current events have made us almost indifferent to it. To refer to a professional author's take:
@Lemmus I have a lot of time for Charlie & his perspective, & suspect that it’s widely shared even among tech & science folk.
Which is a problem for NASA, inasmuch as the association between the tropes of human destiny in space & fascism are probably even stronger now in the public eye than it was in Von Braun’s heyday.
But perhaps even more so for ESA, if the next move is to try to persuade people that an independent human spaceflight programme is the way forward.
-
Yet another #Artemis II article (from a French press agency, no less) ignoring that propulsion, power, & life support to the Orion capsule are provided by ESA’s European Service Module.
Built in Bremen by Airbus, with parts from all over Europe, e.g. solar wings made in Leiden.
Also no mention of the fact that the ESM’s for the Moon-landing Artemis IV & V missions are to be supplied as part of ESA’s contribution to the Lunar Gateway.
Which NASA cancelled last week.
@markmccaughrean Maybe I didn't read the thread carefully enough, but what does that cancellation mean for the planned moon landing?
-
@markmccaughrean Maybe I didn't read the thread carefully enough, but what does that cancellation mean for the planned moon landing?
@kallekn I'm not fully up-to-speed on all the details, but the original Moon landing mission was supposed to Artemis III, but was already moved to IV. ESM-3 & ESM-4 were delivered by Airbus to KSC in Aug 2024 & Nov 2025, respectively, so those parts of the hardware for those missions is in place.
Whether ESA will get its promised lunar astronauts (in principle the first should be German) & what happens to ESM-5 & 6, I don't know.
-
Yet another #Artemis II article (from a French press agency, no less) ignoring that propulsion, power, & life support to the Orion capsule are provided by ESA’s European Service Module.
Built in Bremen by Airbus, with parts from all over Europe, e.g. solar wings made in Leiden.
Also no mention of the fact that the ESM’s for the Moon-landing Artemis IV & V missions are to be supplied as part of ESA’s contribution to the Lunar Gateway.
Which NASA cancelled last week.
@markmccaughrean @happydisciple I'm sure Austria isn't the only European country whose media is running excited stories about the country's contributions to the ESM. Pressurisation lines from Styria! The service module backbone network from Vienna!
-
Yet another #Artemis II article (from a French press agency, no less) ignoring that propulsion, power, & life support to the Orion capsule are provided by ESA’s European Service Module.
Built in Bremen by Airbus, with parts from all over Europe, e.g. solar wings made in Leiden.
Also no mention of the fact that the ESM’s for the Moon-landing Artemis IV & V missions are to be supplied as part of ESA’s contribution to the Lunar Gateway.
Which NASA cancelled last week.
@markmccaughrean The NASA stream I've been watching did mention the ESM module. I'm pleased that it's an international effort and also that they didn't try some half-assed attempt to use SpaceX equipment which is untested for a lunar mission.
Now if we can just purge the white supremacists out of our government...
-
@kallekn I'm not fully up-to-speed on all the details, but the original Moon landing mission was supposed to Artemis III, but was already moved to IV. ESM-3 & ESM-4 were delivered by Airbus to KSC in Aug 2024 & Nov 2025, respectively, so those parts of the hardware for those missions is in place.
Whether ESA will get its promised lunar astronauts (in principle the first should be German) & what happens to ESM-5 & 6, I don't know.
@markmccaughrean But they'll be able to land?
-
@markmccaughrean @happydisciple I'm sure Austria isn't the only European country whose media is running excited stories about the country's contributions to the ESM. Pressurisation lines from Styria! The service module backbone network from Vienna!
@m @happydisciple I would hope that’s the case, as ESA & its Member States (thus the taxpayers) have spent a lot of money on the ESM
I do know that the Leiden-built solar wings were trumpeted on TV in NL, but quite whether this message is getting across to the general public more broadly, I don’t know. If & when a European flies on Artemis, that should change, but even then, as we know, ESA astronauts are generally only well-known in their home country.
-
@markmccaughrean But they'll be able to land?
@kallekn That's all down to the Child King & whether his rockets can deliver the promised goods.
There's an awful lot of difficult work to be done to prove that the single HLS Starship can be refuelled in LEO by a whole fleet of other tanker & depot Starships (somewhere between 10 & 20!!) as is required.
Truly, the concept is utterly bananas & I don't know how / why anyone ever signed up to it.
I mean, Apollo was *far* simpler more than fifty years ago.
-
@markmccaughrean The NASA stream I've been watching did mention the ESM module. I'm pleased that it's an international effort and also that they didn't try some half-assed attempt to use SpaceX equipment which is untested for a lunar mission.
Now if we can just purge the white supremacists out of our government...
@mpotter That's good to hear & yes, of course in principle I'm happy that Europe is part of the programme. But US politics has shifted greatly since that collaboration started, & personally (I no longer speak for ESA), I'm deeply unhappy about the geopolitical context this is happening in.
As for the Child King, I still can't believe anyone signed up to the ludicrous HLS concept. 10-20 Starship launches to fuel another Starship depot in LEO, then transferring that to the actual lunar lander?
-
@markmccaughrean Quite a lot of people used to be really excited about manned space exploration, myself being one of them, but current events have made us almost indifferent to it. To refer to a professional author's take:
@Lemmus @markmccaughrean I'm still genuinely surprised that it happened. When Trump started talking about it my immediate response was "Bullshit, he's distracting people from important things."
I never thought he was serious.
-
@hadon Oh, there certainly has been some coverage of the European involvement in Artemis, & I also saw a piece of Dutch TV where the fact that the solar wings were made in Leiden was mentioned.
I’ve been asked to do media around Artemis & have largely turned it down, because I have felt very conflicted about not wanting to give any succour to the current US govt. Missed opportunities to discuss the ESM as a result, of course.
And overall, ESA’s part is just lost in the noise of US flag-waving.
You may enjoy this cartoon
-
@hadon Oh, there certainly has been some coverage of the European involvement in Artemis, & I also saw a piece of Dutch TV where the fact that the solar wings were made in Leiden was mentioned.
I’ve been asked to do media around Artemis & have largely turned it down, because I have felt very conflicted about not wanting to give any succour to the current US govt. Missed opportunities to discuss the ESM as a result, of course.
And overall, ESA’s part is just lost in the noise of US flag-waving.
But you are right, maybe written mainstream media hasn't said it enough. So, I'm going to share more articles on the subject. This is something about we Europeans should be proud. We need to know more about our own capabilities and strength.
-
J jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
