Open source maintainers at profitable companies: stop asking permission to fix what your employer already depends on.
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@penguin42 You can and should negotiate on those terms in contracts. Using personal equipment may help here too.
@mikemcquaid Yeh and (when I worked) i did; but it can be tricky; certainly it's worth checking you can legally just do 'No paperwork' - otherwise you can get the project you contribute to into trouble.
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Open source maintainers at profitable companies: stop asking permission to fix what your employer already depends on.
No paperwork. No programme. No manager’s blessing. Just maintain it on the clock.
No paperwork → I would be fired for cause
This is pretty bad advice for nearly everyone working in the tech sector.
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@nor4 I'm not familiar with German law but potential options: do on personal equipment, negotiate a different IP agreement before starting the job.
@mikemcquaid @nor4 only the latter is an option, the former makes no difference. This is due to the law on inventions this is based on - you could invent something at home in the shower, and the employer could still claim it.
You can renegotiate though, I've done it before. -
Open source maintainers at profitable companies: stop asking permission to fix what your employer already depends on.
No paperwork. No programme. No manager’s blessing. Just maintain it on the clock.
@mikemcquaid this could also backfire - and make managers take over the open-source projects for their own product roadmaps.
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@mikemcquaid this could also backfire - and make managers take over the open-source projects for their own product roadmaps.
@mahadevank yes, this can happen when you have a management that is not familar with how open source or free software actually works. They see employee contributions as a claim. @mikemcquaid
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Open source maintainers at profitable companies: stop asking permission to fix what your employer already depends on.
No paperwork. No programme. No manager’s blessing. Just maintain it on the clock.
@mikemcquaid
"No paperwork required. No internal programme. No request for a manager’s blessing. Treat it like the infrastructure and technical debt work it already is and just crack on."Ah there's a problem, I have to beg for time to fix technical debt and infrastructure work as well
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Edit: facetious reply aside, yes, wholeheartedly agree with this
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Open source maintainers at profitable companies: stop asking permission to fix what your employer already depends on.
No paperwork. No programme. No manager’s blessing. Just maintain it on the clock.
@mikemcquaid fait accompli, bitches
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Open source maintainers at profitable companies: stop asking permission to fix what your employer already depends on.
No paperwork. No programme. No manager’s blessing. Just maintain it on the clock.
i dont know. i like the idea, and i love anything that helps oss. but...
if i had, say, 1 hour a day that i could get away with *not* doing my prescribed work... why would i do *different* work? as opposed to nothing? or something relaxing?
maybe this makes more sense in some sort of office environment where you have to *appear* to be working, but could get away with it being on oss instead.
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i dont know. i like the idea, and i love anything that helps oss. but...
if i had, say, 1 hour a day that i could get away with *not* doing my prescribed work... why would i do *different* work? as opposed to nothing? or something relaxing?
maybe this makes more sense in some sort of office environment where you have to *appear* to be working, but could get away with it being on oss instead.
@Mumonkan If it's not your idea of fun: don't do it, that's fine. For a lot of us, it is our idea of fun.
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No paperwork → I would be fired for cause
This is pretty bad advice for nearly everyone working in the tech sector.
@krans If you read your employment contract you can also probably be fired for cause for a wide variety of reasons that are broadly ignored. I disagree it's bad advice although your employer may not agree. If they don't and they use open source software, they are freeloaders.
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@edd @penguin42 Unionisation may be good but it's not going to happen overnight. You can start working on open source in work hours tomorrow if you wish. You say "lots of employers": in my experience almost all will negotiate on this and, if they don't, you don't have to work there.
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@mahadevank yes, this can happen when you have a management that is not familar with how open source or free software actually works. They see employee contributions as a claim. @mikemcquaid
@chillicampari @mahadevank This is why I suggest not telling them.
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@mikemcquaid
"No paperwork required. No internal programme. No request for a manager’s blessing. Treat it like the infrastructure and technical debt work it already is and just crack on."Ah there's a problem, I have to beg for time to fix technical debt and infrastructure work as well
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Edit: facetious reply aside, yes, wholeheartedly agree with this
@critter_in_flux Glad we agree. Do the tech debt without permission too
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@krans If you read your employment contract you can also probably be fired for cause for a wide variety of reasons that are broadly ignored. I disagree it's bad advice although your employer may not agree. If they don't and they use open source software, they are freeloaders.
@mikemcquaid Yes, absolutely. My employer is indeed a freeloader. Freeloading corporations exploit open source software *wildly*.
Nevertheless, if I was caught publishing open source software on company time without the appropriate paperwork, I would be instantly fired.
Believe it or not, I have read my contract in detail, and there are no examples of contextual obligations that are “broadly ignored.”
People who do “no paperwork” will lose their livelihoods. Bad advice. Do the paperwork.
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@mikemcquaid Yes, absolutely. My employer is indeed a freeloader. Freeloading corporations exploit open source software *wildly*.
Nevertheless, if I was caught publishing open source software on company time without the appropriate paperwork, I would be instantly fired.
Believe it or not, I have read my contract in detail, and there are no examples of contextual obligations that are “broadly ignored.”
People who do “no paperwork” will lose their livelihoods. Bad advice. Do the paperwork.
@krans Most people I know have contracts that say they could technically be fired for ever using a company device for non-work reasons. They wouldn't be even if caught but this is why they don't disclose it, so they don't get caught. I actively recommend people do the same with something morally more positive: open source. Ironically, my career would have suffered far more from following your advice than heeding it. I have private messages from many other maintainers saying the same thing.
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@krans Most people I know have contracts that say they could technically be fired for ever using a company device for non-work reasons. They wouldn't be even if caught but this is why they don't disclose it, so they don't get caught. I actively recommend people do the same with something morally more positive: open source. Ironically, my career would have suffered far more from following your advice than heeding it. I have private messages from many other maintainers saying the same thing.
@mikemcquaid Okay
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Open source maintainers at profitable companies: stop asking permission to fix what your employer already depends on.
No paperwork. No programme. No manager’s blessing. Just maintain it on the clock.
@mikemcquaid Hmm... Fix 'taking without paying' by 'taking without paying'? I guess that might (occasionally) work out fairly but mostly it feels like a revenge attack on corporate greed and more likely to lead to FOSS being banned if your 'activism' is detected. You will probably end up on a list of suspected terrorists.
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Open source maintainers at profitable companies: stop asking permission to fix what your employer already depends on.
No paperwork. No programme. No manager’s blessing. Just maintain it on the clock.
@mikemcquaid I think I submitted a few patches with my personal email to projects we were using to fix a bug or upstream a change. Because fuck it, I am not going through legal to allow me to do this, else I will have to wait 6 months to get an answer from company lawyers.
But only for necessary patches.
I tried to push for Open Source Friday time at top management level but the idea got shut down: “we do not have time for this”
Anyway: I like the mindset of oss resistance
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@mikemcquaid Hmm... Fix 'taking without paying' by 'taking without paying'? I guess that might (occasionally) work out fairly but mostly it feels like a revenge attack on corporate greed and more likely to lead to FOSS being banned if your 'activism' is detected. You will probably end up on a list of suspected terrorists.
@woo This does not match my experience. It doesn't feel like "revenge" as much as "doing the right thing even without permission" like you might write tests even if your PM says not to, pay down tech debt even if not on the roadmap, etc.
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