Rust wgpu now has a
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@r @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy it makes us really angry that the only way to actually learn anything in the US is to decide that you're fucking well going to learn what you think is important even though everyone in authority will punish you for doing so and you'll have to put up with twenty years of insults about your intelligence
@r @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy the entire fucking country would collapse if not for people who made that choice at a young age, to learn despite being punished for it
and it's too much to put on children. it's completely unfair.
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@r @ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @amarioguy but yeah jumping back up here a lot of this is technical theater. You can go to school for lighting design, stage electrics, audio engineering and like such as and learn this stuff but there's no real connection back to the computer-touching or EE side
@decay @MaddieM4 @mcc @amarioguy i've noticed this pattern *in general*
computer-touching is very much in the "academia" side of the world, and especially with the sf bay area tech scene of the past ~15 years has intentionally(?) pulled away from a lot of this more-hands-on stuff
EE is *extremely* broad, but i've personally felt as if it almost needs to(?) pick sides whether it's going to be "academia" or "hands on" (my old university had a major bad reputation for being _terrible_ at "hands on" for how Elite
️ it is)otoh, i've noticed that the hands-on fields often come across as a bit.... protectionist and closed-off
i believe @ireneista has thought about this topic a lot more?
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@decay @MaddieM4 @mcc @amarioguy i've noticed this pattern *in general*
computer-touching is very much in the "academia" side of the world, and especially with the sf bay area tech scene of the past ~15 years has intentionally(?) pulled away from a lot of this more-hands-on stuff
EE is *extremely* broad, but i've personally felt as if it almost needs to(?) pick sides whether it's going to be "academia" or "hands on" (my old university had a major bad reputation for being _terrible_ at "hands on" for how Elite
️ it is)otoh, i've noticed that the hands-on fields often come across as a bit.... protectionist and closed-off
i believe @ireneista has thought about this topic a lot more?
@r @decay @MaddieM4 @mcc @amarioguy we have, but you're doing a good job of explaining it, we don't actually have anything to add
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@r @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy the entire fucking country would collapse if not for people who made that choice at a young age, to learn despite being punished for it
and it's too much to put on children. it's completely unfair.
@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy it's Fun
️ how certain topics that schools are particularly bad at (not only the US, although the US is extra bad), such as "abstraction", are *absolutely critical* for the current "computer age"although it's Fun
️-squared that this has been identified, with *basically this exact rhetoric too*, and yet the US didn't actually deal with it -
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it is not possible within the confines of the activitypub protocol to represent how much I love this post
this is a good post and I like this post a lot
CC: @mcc@mastodon.social -
@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy it's Fun
️ how certain topics that schools are particularly bad at (not only the US, although the US is extra bad), such as "abstraction", are *absolutely critical* for the current "computer age"although it's Fun
️-squared that this has been identified, with *basically this exact rhetoric too*, and yet the US didn't actually deal with it@r @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy wouldn't want to create an educated proletariat, after all
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@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy it's Fun
️ how certain topics that schools are particularly bad at (not only the US, although the US is extra bad), such as "abstraction", are *absolutely critical* for the current "computer age"although it's Fun
️-squared that this has been identified, with *basically this exact rhetoric too*, and yet the US didn't actually deal with it@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy this is something that i seriously want to do something about, although i haven't had much chance to discuss it with people and don't know _how_
how can we teach people abstraction (as a first-class idea, the way computer-touchers would think about it)?
the problem is that this isn't something that can be taught via direct instruction, it basically has to be experienced/ discovered and reinforced
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@r @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy wouldn't want to create an educated proletariat, after all
@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy the frustrating thing is, (as we were briefly privately discussing), at some point they did!
and then they (possibly a different group of "they"?) decided to change their minds
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@mcc/117338324202161763
@eniko thanks.
and yeah, we need a kernel. one person can't write a kernel. it's not a matter of scope. it's a matter of you have to test more hardware configurations than one person can get in a private residence. we need that kernel handled by an *institution*.
the problem with freedos is if we want to make *games* then probably at some point we want access to sound and video. and if you want your game to render by any method other than CPU-on-framebuffer sound and video become Very Hard.
@mcc @eniko I sometimes wonder if we need so many hardware configurations, especially for personal devices. We could do well with some stability within a paired down feature set, even if it's not the most "powerful". A lot of the product differentiation out there is just capitalists trying to eat each other's lunch.
What's the most minimal GPU you'd find acceptable?
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Servo rests atop wgpu. Therefore, if my OS's entire GUI layer is servo, and I believe that implementing webgpu is easier than implementing vulkan, I can increase my chances of writing a working video-acceleration driver if I simplify it so *the driver supplies wgpu*, instead of trying to support the full scope of DRI/DRM or OpenGL/Vulkan or whatever this entails.
Two things I want, in both cases wgpu provides a critical, project-saving step.
And oh, I think wgpu might be slop now. Never mind!
@mcc I didn't quite follow the whole thread, but I think it's worth clarifying that wgpu is only used in Servo to implement webgpu, which is an optional feature. Servo rests atop webrender instead.
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@mcc @eniko I sometimes wonder if we need so many hardware configurations, especially for personal devices. We could do well with some stability within a paired down feature set, even if it's not the most "powerful". A lot of the product differentiation out there is just capitalists trying to eat each other's lunch.
What's the most minimal GPU you'd find acceptable?
@thankfulmachine @eniko last time I perceived a computer being specifically better than the computer I had before it was like, 2009, so let's say about as powerful as a standard 2009 desktop GPU? I'd also probably be fine to go back to 2001 or 2003. But I need some degree of shader support
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@mcc I didn't quite follow the whole thread, but I think it's worth clarifying that wgpu is only used in Servo to implement webgpu, which is an optional feature. Servo rests atop webrender instead.
@jdm_ that's very good to know, however, all the rust software *I* wrote in the last four or so years was written atop wgpu, and this was the entirety of my plan for running my software inside servo, if my wacky "ChromeOS but Servo" idea came to fruition
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@jdm_ that's very good to know, however, all the rust software *I* wrote in the last four or so years was written atop wgpu, and this was the entirety of my plan for running my software inside servo, if my wacky "ChromeOS but Servo" idea came to fruition
@mcc Ah, yeah, That would be a sticking point
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@ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @decay @amarioguy the frustrating thing is, (as we were briefly privately discussing), at some point they did!
and then they (possibly a different group of "they"?) decided to change their minds
@r @ireneista @MaddieM4 @mcc @amarioguy the capitalist class successfully broke the strong labor and revolutionary socialist movements that they were bulwarking against in the first place and had no more reason not to tighten the noose, same as the collapse of the welfare state, same as why public healthcare is being dismantled outside the US and so on
