Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
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@jzb@hachyderm.io degrowth
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb private LLM's that can RAG on your private files are goated, but anyone who says you have to host outside your house is a liar
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb I'm very much a move slow and keep things together sort of guy.
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb 100% agree. All this "extra productivity" workers are (supposedly) gaining is just being used to pile more work onto them, because of course it is.
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@jzb Yes.
A coworker vibecoded some features at work. Stuff we had wanted for a while but so low priority it was never going to get done — until it was possible to do it in the background in a couple of hours.
Except the amount of work involved in reviewing it and generally getting it into an acceptable state for production took up multiple days of back and forth, offsetting any time previously saved.
It’s the old thing of ‘fast, cheap, good: pick two’. LLMs allow faster and cheaper software than before but the same tradeoff still exists; to go that fast you have to be willing to sacrifice quality. I’d rather we slowed down!
I saw this cycle over & over again 10 years ago, long before agentic coding was possible:
- Our project is way behind schedule!
- Quick, hire a bunch of junior devs
- Wow, training them took a lonnnng time
- Their output kind of.. sucks?
- Sr. devs pulled off other projects to fix the jr. dev output
- Net loss of money AND time.
Now... let's do all that again with AI "devs" that really aren't, and who hallucinate & steal, and can't be held accountable. Yayy!
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I saw this cycle over & over again 10 years ago, long before agentic coding was possible:
- Our project is way behind schedule!
- Quick, hire a bunch of junior devs
- Wow, training them took a lonnnng time
- Their output kind of.. sucks?
- Sr. devs pulled off other projects to fix the jr. dev output
- Net loss of money AND time.
Now... let's do all that again with AI "devs" that really aren't, and who hallucinate & steal, and can't be held accountable. Yayy!
@ralfmaximus @jzb I always want to defend junior devs against comparisons to AI, but I can also see how the problem arises.
You can’t just treat a junior dev as cheap labour, they should be seen as an investment — expected to need additional support to begin with, until they gain more experience.
And so when people say an LLM is like a junior dev I can only assume they’re stuck in this shortsighted mindset, and no wonder it isn’t working out for them. Except this time around the money goes to some US megacorporation and nobody gets any useful experience out of it.
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb happy to help
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb exactly. strip away all the fluff and nonsense from the GenAI sales talk, and their pitch boils down to mere obsession with "productivity" in that special tech-sector way in which nothing is actually produced.
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb The entire "move fast and break things" mindset is what drives QA engineers and SDETs to drink.
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@ralfmaximus @jzb I always want to defend junior devs against comparisons to AI, but I can also see how the problem arises.
You can’t just treat a junior dev as cheap labour, they should be seen as an investment — expected to need additional support to begin with, until they gain more experience.
And so when people say an LLM is like a junior dev I can only assume they’re stuck in this shortsighted mindset, and no wonder it isn’t working out for them. Except this time around the money goes to some US megacorporation and nobody gets any useful experience out of it.
I've never done that in my career. Went out of my way to hire smart people who wanted to learn, and always tried to nurture them. 8 times out of ten I was rewarded with motivated, loyal people.
Management above me did not see it that way. To them, hiring was a meat pipeline to solve a problem, and once solved, to be dismissed.
Major reason I started my own company.
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb Tiene toda la razón... Hacer las cosas más rápidamente no es hacerlas mejor. Por ejemplo las técnicas de engorde de pollos, debido a qué las empresas inyectan a las aves con químicos para qué engorden en 48 días, la carne resultante del proceso se hace fea, café y asquerosa. Antiguamente se engordaban en 72 días y a veces un poco más para asegurar la calidad de la carne. ¿Cuál es el resultado de esas desiciones basadas en el egoísmo corporativo?, carne horrible pero más rápida de producir.
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@jzb I wish there was more a "Code Quality" guide or guild where people build code at slower pace but in high quality..
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@jzb The entire "move fast and break things" mindset is what drives QA engineers and SDETs to drink.
@annathepiper It is nice to have a driver so I can drink... oh, that's probably not what you meant.
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@jzb My thoughts exactly. More of everything, faster and faster, is the last thing the humanity needs. Especially when the ONLY reason behind that push is revenue growth - a term I'm tired sick to my stomach of hearing.
Revenue growth == cancer.
Which stops the host by terminating the host.
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@annathepiper It is nice to have a driver so I can drink... oh, that's probably not what you meant.
@jzb lololololol
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@jzb exactly. strip away all the fluff and nonsense from the GenAI sales talk, and their pitch boils down to mere obsession with "productivity" in that special tech-sector way in which nothing is actually produced.
Yes, but nothing is produced much faster.
We had this debate before.
When PC was introduced to the business, for years there was no measurable increase in #productivityRed Queen dilemma from "Alice in Wonderland"
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb we need more of certain things (poverty reduction, affordable housing, welfare) and less of others (infinite growth mindset, shareholder-first mentality)
We are optimising for the wrong incentives
The things we need, ChatGPT can’t solve
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@jzb we need more of certain things (poverty reduction, affordable housing, welfare) and less of others (infinite growth mindset, shareholder-first mentality)
We are optimising for the wrong incentives
The things we need, ChatGPT can’t solve
@jzb furthermore, I’d go farther and say:
We need more *fun.* Desperately. I’d say this is a truly urgent problem. There just isn’t much to do anymore that’s really fun. Games are becoming formulaic. Arcades haven’t been updated in 10 years. Movies are all “enjoy the 899th Spider-Man.” We need more new things, fun things, things that don’t cost a fortune, and ways to make them accessible.
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb Slow Work, to complement Slow Food? But that might mean making less than all of the money!
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Perhaps one of the reasons I'm not into LLMs is because I am not really convinced that what we need in the world is more stuff done faster.
I'd like to see a "slow the fuck down" movement and a "does this really need to be done?" movement.
Do corporations *really* need to be moving ever faster, generating more stuff, growing endlessly like cancers?
Maybe I'm just old and tired, but I'd like to have just... less of everything.
Except cat pictures, of course. Keep 'em coming.
@jzb have some rolling and scritching from Ori and Zeph!
